22-02-2003 04:31									#31
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The funniest part is some of the reviews are upset that the movie treats Southerners as people who acted like they were fighting against invasion and not for slavery!

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 22-02-2003 at 05:19

	22-02-2003 04:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You mean Patrick Swayze and Stacey Keach? How odd...

Which one has the cheesy moustache and played Mike Hammer?

ACK!

	22-02-2003 04:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Which one has the cheesy moustache and played Mike Hammer? ACK!

That would be Keach.

	22-02-2003 04:54									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The funniest part of some of the reviews is that they treat Southerners as people who acted like they were fighting against invasion and not for slavery!

We were fighting against an invasion. The Yankees weren't yet fighting for slavery (at least the vast majority of them and the government), they were fighting to subjugate and conquer the independent, sovereign Confederate States of America, and to forcibly return us to a union with which we collectively wiped our asses.

	22-02-2003 04:59									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That would be Keach.

Got it:

Stacy Keach= Cheesy moustache, dirty language

Patrick Swayze Cheesy movies, Dirty Dancing.

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	22-02-2003 05:00									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat We were fighting against an invasion. The Yankees weren't yet fighting for slavery (at least the vast majority of them and the government), they were fighting to subjugate and conquer the independent, sovereign Confederate States of America, and to forcibly return us to a union with which we collectively wiped our asses.

You apparently missed a few place. Seeing as the the toilet paper in which you wiped your asses came back and kicked your asses.

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	22-02-2003 05:10									#37
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The Charmin was more durable then they thought

And besides, states have no right to succeed from the union. Those states committed high treason and their crimes shoul never be forgotten.

	22-02-2003 05:20									#38
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MtG: I have NO idea what I posted there! I edited it to say what I wanted it to me.

	22-02-2003 05:24									#39
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Well, according to the Centers for Disease Control, diabetes, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes are doing in them rebels more efficiently than anything the North could've ever thrown at 'em.

Gatekeeper

	22-02-2003 05:27									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui MtG: I have NO idea what I posted there! I edited it to say what I wanted it to me.

That's funny, this post really makes less sense than the last one.



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	22-02-2003 05:33									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia The Charmin was more durable then they thought And besides, states have no right to succeed from the union. Those states committed high treason and their crimes shoul never be forgotten.

States (at least the original signatory states, for the others it's sort of case by case depending on how they came into the union) have every right to secede.

Nothing in the Constitution says that signatories are permanently bound, nothing spells out any remedies for non-performance or malfeasance by the Federal government, the Ninth Amendment expressly states that the enumeration of certain rights does not deny or disparge others retained by the people, and the Tenth Amendment expressly states that all rights not expressly reserved to the Federal government are reserved to the States or to the People.

And states can't commit treason, only individuals.

	22-02-2003 05:53									#42
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Why are they still making Civil War movies? I thought Gone With The Wind said it all... Or maybe Birth Of A Nation...

	22-02-2003 05:53									#43
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quote: Nothing in the Constitution says that signatories are permanently bound, nothing spells out any remedies for non-performance or malfeasance by the Federal government, the Ninth Amendment expressly states that the enumeration of certain rights does not deny or disparge others retained by the people, and the Tenth Amendment expressly states that all rights not expressly reserved to the Federal government are reserved to the States or to the People.

Well thats quite irrelevant seeing what happened to the last batch of states who succeeded.
Force has made it an amendment.

Maybe states cannot commit treason, but the individuals who run them did.

	22-02-2003 06:25									#44
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So if someone gets forcibily stopped from doing something, it means they don't have the right to do it? By your statement "they didn't have the right to," you made a pretension of having some basis for your statement. Obviously, you didn't.

If you say, I don't think they should have, or, I don't think they should have the right to, that's an entirely different matter.

	22-02-2003 06:29									#45
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Has anyone seen the movie yet?

	22-02-2003 07:35									#46
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I was going to see it this morning, but then this damnable concept called "work" set in. Now I've got to deal with moving and crap, so I won't get to see it until Monday a.m.

Lawrence: You're confusing "right" with "ability to act and enforce one's right against foreign aggression.

Iraq and lots of little countries (like all of the ones in this this entire hemisphere) more or less in theory have a right to national sovereignty. If their "right" to sovereignty hinges upon their ability to resist the military aggression of the United States, then they're royally screwed.

	22-02-2003 08:23									#47
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By the same token, MtG, if your "right" to property hinges upon your ability to resist my gun, then you're totally screwed.

Same argument, right?

	22-02-2003 08:45									#48
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I can shoot your ass off, David. In more ways than one.

The War of Yankee Aggression proved that rights without some means to adequately secure them are ephemeral.

	22-02-2003 10:55									#49
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Moving? Where ya going?

And of course, since the SCOTUS couldn't settle the seccession argument, the US Army did it for them .

	22-02-2003 11:22									#50
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd By the same token, MtG, if your "right" to property hinges upon your ability to resist my gun, then you're totally screwed. Same argument, right?

DF,

The same goes the other way. Your right to property is protected only by force. That's why the government works for the rich. That's why the rich should pay higher taxes

	22-02-2003 13:07									#51
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quote: making it sound even worse than Gettysburg

But how can you not love a movie where mainers save the day!?!?!

	23-02-2003 08:48									#52
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Killer Angles is a great book! But Gettysburg stinks to high heaven!

Gods and Generals is also a great book. But it's great power is the way it takes you into the mind of the generals. You see what Hancock sees, and feel what he feels when he stumbles upon the vunerable part of the Confederate army...and is ordered to withdraw. You are taken into Stonewall Jackson's mind as he lies dying. No movie can do that. Instead, the movie will be just another Civil War shoot 'em up.

	23-02-2003 08:56									#53
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I saw the movie a few hours ago.

Bruce Boxleitner as General Longstreet was my favorite part of the movie. They should have gave him more to do. Military guys with cigars are great. Captain Sheridan in a Civil War setting with a cigar is even better.

	23-02-2003 10:15									#54
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MtG,

quote: I can shoot your ass off, David. In more ways than one.

Probably, but what's your point? Are you, then, saying that MY right to property hinges upon MY ability to resist your gun?

Duncan,

quote: The same goes the other way. Your right to property is protected only by force.

Naturally.

quote: That's why the government works for the rich.

That isn't true at all. The true purpose of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property. Even if you don't have much property, everyone has the same amount of life and liberty.

quote: That's why the rich should pay higher taxes

I've pointed out the problems with this argument before. If the rich pay higher taxes, and those taxes are used to fund wealth transfer programs to the poor, then the government is in fact working roughly equally for everyone, or, more likely, in favor of the poor. Therefore, it's unfair to force the rich to pay higher tax rates.

	23-02-2003 10:37									#55
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From what I've heard, the movie is long-winded (like Gettysburg), and entirely neglects to mention slavery at all.

	23-02-2003 10:43									#56
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quote: From what I've heard, the movie is long-winded (like Gettysburg), and entirely neglects to mention slavery at all.

If I'm going to see a Civil War movie, I want lots of fighting. I don't want to hear about how unjust slavery was - I already know that. I just want to see some cool battles.

	23-02-2003 10:48									#57
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The thing is, the movie supposedly tries to include moral justifications, where the generals make long-winded speeches before battles and so forth. If you're going to do that (which is a pretty stupid idea, IMO), you might as well do it competently.

	23-02-2003 10:55									#58
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Ah. Good point.

	23-02-2003 11:09									#59
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The US Civil War. All that pain, agony and suffering. And I am talking about viewing this so-called movie, not the fighting those poor soldiers had to do.

Last Civil War movie I truely enjoyed was The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

	23-02-2003 11:20									#60
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Outlaw Josey Wales was better.