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Propaganda
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From Russia, With Love.
Jun 2002
time: 21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
A great tragedy of World War 1 was that Russia was rapidly industrialising and modernising in 1914. It probably would have achieved super power status anyway without all the terrible bloodshed of the communist years. Its tottering feudal social and political structure simply could not withstand the shock of war. There was no October revolution, the Bolsheviks simply walked in and filled the power vacuum. It was more like a palace coup.
Its sobering to look at Russian society in 1914. Whole classes of people were wiped out over the next 70 years, particularly the first 30 years of communist rule. People were killed just for being from the wrong class, an aristocrat, bourgeois, kulak. Ethnic groups were mercilessly persecuted, the Ukrainians suffered terribly for example. Whole communities were liquidated. So much tragedy and destruction, so much human potential lost forever. Stalin was right at the centre of all this carnage. Lenin wasn't much better.
Look at Russia today - it really makes anyone who loves the country want to weep. |
The great tragedy here is this post.
Russia in 1914 was poor, backward and not anywhere close to European standard. Russia's industry(whatever there actually was) was heavily reliant on foreign capital and investments. Conditions in the factories were horrid, the supposed reforms that would bring in quality in the workplaces were not even working, with inspections only happening a few times a year. The same could be said for the agarian sector, largely relaint on feudal tools. Conditions were equally bad there, with the only possitive being good ammounts of bread and meat. The workforce, both industrial and agarian, was illeterate, as well, not able to afford education at higher levels, mostly reserved for the gentry.
The fact is, had Russia continued it's reliance on foreign capital and not done something "magic" anytime soon, it would have let to a crisis(which it did). Had any of European contries had so much as coughed, Russia's "industrial growth" would have been swept back away, with Russia itself being brought back to the stone age.
As for the rest of your post - 
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Propaganda
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From Russia, With Love.
Jun 2002
time: 21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes - and communism was one of the very worst options. It will take Russia many years to recover from the communist period. Some precious things that were lost will never be recovered, so many lives.
Going back to communism is not the answer. |
Yes, lives were lost, No one here is denying that. The only problem I have is seeing the blame being put on Stalin alone and fully on his collectivization and industrialization policies.
People mysteriously forget that epidemics, poor harvest conditions at that time, and class war of had a major effect on agriculture. Not to mention that organization was nearly non-existent, because of the struggle waged, both between the bureaucracy, and the peasants.
Theft and sabotage were commonplace, which also increased the problems.
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Propaganda
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From Russia, With Love.
Jun 2002
time: 21:26
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"Hundreds of millions" maybe be exagerrated, but that's beside the point.
You see, we now live in a society where information such as this is available to us, where in previous ages, none of this was available. We now have the benefit of researching and finding truth on various subjects in the not-so-distant past(information I kindly provided here, BTW; information from unbiased sources, sources with no socialist outlook for the world, many of whom come from capitalist countries). Thus, we no longer have to rely on a few sources from the outside(some of whom have no real history in the subject; information they bill as "credible," but in reality fraudulent, used to make a profit), we can go straight to the source.
What I'm doing here is spreading this information. It could be wrong, but that's why I welcome other sources, provided that I can't challenge them in any way.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Propaganda
What I'm doing here is spreading this information. It could be wrong, but that's why I welcome other sources, provided that I can't challenge them in any way. |
Har, har, har.
Is that why you fall back on labeling for anything you do not have a ready answer for? If someone points out that there are extensive eyewitness records of the famine, you call the witnesses fascists.
Case in point.
quote:
Originally posted by Propaganda
"Numerous?" I'd like to hear about this. The fact is, there are only a few at the forefront of this; their backgrounds completely suspect, who are profiting from this. "Ex-nationals?" Are you admitting they were fascists/nationalists at one point or another in their lives? |
Now, whether you like it or not, a great many survivors of the famine made it to the West. A fair number of them told their stories. You can wail on about Conquest til you turn blue, you will not extinguish the knowledge that Stalin was one of the most brutal, murderous, and yes evil, humans to ever live.
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Apolyton Time is 00:26. |
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10-03-2003 06:09
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