26-02-2003 01:59									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by JohnT And your resources to launch the countersuit will be... the 2,000 pounds you have left from the University's mistake?

Where there's blame, there's a claim!

	26-02-2003 02:41									#32
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Phone the National Accident Hotline and say you fainted and seriously hurt your head when you saw all that money the university put into your account. This trauma was compounded when you fainted and hurt your head again at the thought of having to pay it all back.

	26-02-2003 02:44									#33
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I like it, and if this was the US, it would probably work

	26-02-2003 03:13									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison If you suddenly saw that kind of money in front of you, would you just give it back without a second thought, especially from an organisation who had made your past couple of years hell.

Actually I would give it back, sorry mate.
Not for any moral reason mind you, but from a purely selfish one: I know it would only come back to bite me in the ass later on if I didn't give it back and I'm too lazy to deal with that ****.

	26-02-2003 03:22									#35
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Well I didn't. They are threatening to sue me for money I don't have...I can offer repayment over a period of time but with no long-term employment I can't really do much. If they sue me I could 'theoretically' face losing the car, but I doubt it as I owe a considerable amount of money on it. They will just have to accept my terms, it would be a lot easier all round.

	26-02-2003 03:27									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison They will just have to accept my terms, it would be a lot easier all round.

Agreed.

	26-02-2003 03:43									#37
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Your problem was not keeping the money, it was spending it before the 6 years was up.

	26-02-2003 03:48									#38
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Hey, I have already given most of it back! There is just £1345 that is ' unaccounted for'.

Speaking of 'unaccounted for', have you got a job sorted yet BC?

	26-02-2003 03:50									#39
	Got spare money?

Perhaps I should 'give' my car to my mother

	26-02-2003 15:28									#40
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How long do you reckon guys?

A couple of months? Or community service?

	26-02-2003 16:05									#41
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If you have not already done so put the repayment offer in writing. Don't pay anything back until you get a written agreement from them to a schedule of repayments.

Try the local CAB, they are usually good on this sort of thing.

Check the small print on your car loan. If the vehicle remains the property of the lender until the last payment is made then it isn't yours and can't be seized.

Basically they are idiots who want the money back ASAP to cover up the mistake. Let them sweat. You have been a naughty boy but the judge is likely to be more irritated with them for forcing a court case after a reasonable offer of repayment.

	26-02-2003 16:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Basically they are idiots who want the money back ASAP to cover up the mistake.

Exactly. It's no coincidence that PH is getting these demands from them so close to the end of the financial year - they want to balance their books in time for April and they're a few grand down right now. Serves the buggers right really.

	26-02-2003 17:13									#43
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Exactly. It's no coincidence that PH is getting these demands from them so close to the end of the financial year - they want to balance their books in time for April and they're a few grand down right now. Serves the buggers right really.

The fact that April 5 is the tax year end does not mean it is their financial year end. Being a university I'd imagine theirs would be in the summer sometime, probably August 31.

	26-02-2003 17:52									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch The fact that April 5 is the tax year end does not mean it is their financial year end. Being a university I'd imagine theirs would be in the summer sometime, probably August 31.

I bow to the superior knowledge of a qualified accountant.

	26-02-2003 18:05									#45
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Only part-qualified unfortunately.

	26-02-2003 18:55									#46
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That still means you know 100 times more about it than I do.

	26-02-2003 19:26									#47
	Got spare money?

I used to work at Sheffield Polytechnic (a long time ago - they pretend it's a university now). The year end was either July or August. They also had a rule about closing the books on some courses six months after the end of the course. That one used to drive the finance assistants crazy as they tried to persuade certain lecturers to submit expenses claims before they were out of time.

	26-02-2003 19:35									#48
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challenge them to a drinking contest. pray they arent scottish

	26-02-2003 19:46									#49
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quote: Upon finding out they had been paid triple the normal amount most people would think "Holy ****! They're gonna be pissed when they find out about this! I'd better tell them about it now and get it sorted out before they come knocking on my door asking for it back."

I wouldn't

Keep the cash, don't spend it and play dumb when they come looking.

	26-02-2003 21:44									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 challenge them to a drinking contest. pray they arent scottish

If they were Scottish I doubt they would have been so generous in the first place.

	26-02-2003 22:01									#52
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Strange laws- what's given to me should be mine no matter what the reasoning behind it was.

	26-02-2003 22:12									#53
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Herpes?

	26-02-2003 22:24									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison If you suddenly saw that kind of money in front of you,

I commonly handle many times that amount of other peoples money, with little accountability and less auditability, and without misapplying a penny of it.

	26-02-2003 22:25									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Strange laws- what's given to me should be mine no matter what the reasoning behind it was.

Not so strange. The idea is that a person cannot enrich themselves to the detriment of another if they "snap up" an offer that is clearly a mistake. If a car dealer gave you a sale contract with a zero missing throughout so the car was sold for 3, 000 instead of 30,000 , do you think you should have been able to enforce that?


Provost has no legal grounds to retain the money but I remain of the opinion that legal action is unlikely and of no benefit to the university. It appears that he has nothing that could immediately satisfy a judgement so a judgement would only get them periodic payments as has already been offered.


Laz,

Theft? Highly unlikely, unless your statute is incredibly different than others I have seen. He is no worse than a business that is unable to pay a bill they legitimately owe . . . or are those folks considered to have committed theft as well??

	26-02-2003 22:46									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Laz, Theft? Highly unlikely, unless your statute is incredibly different than others I have seen. He is no worse than a business that is unable to pay a bill they legitimately owe . . . or are those folks considered to have committed theft as well??

Not at all. There's no Mens Rea. If the debt was incurred legitimately, but later circumstances mean they were unable to repay it then there has been no intention to dishonestly deprive the legal owner of the benefit of the funds.

If, on the other hand, the debtor knew they never had any chance of repaying the debt (but concealed this fact) then the Mens Rea is present and the theft laws apply.

In this case, PH knew he had received this money by mistake, and by not informing the provider then he has demonstrated the intention to deprive the true owner of the benefit of the funds. It's clear-cut, and I think you'll find your own laws will reflect this similarly.

	26-02-2003 23:06									#57
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hmmm

Did provost have to take a positive act of cashing a check or something since I got the sense these funds were directly deposited in his account. If he had left them there and never touched them, there would be no problem since he would have commited no act ( actus reus ? my crim. law is rusty and my latin was always terrible)-- Barring a strict or absolute liability statute, complete and utter inaction is not a crime--

If I take your point, the act of spending some of the money would be the act and evidence of guilty intent as well. I agree that this is where he enters more questionable grounds. But wouldn't provost have a ready made defence on intent if he is simply a bad bookkeeper or keeps bad records ( you know, I forgot about this automatic debit charge or that and before I knew it I was into their money). Seems like raising reasonable doubt on this would be easy. Call it the irresponsible youth defence .

	27-02-2003 00:29									#58
	Got spare money?

Oh he may well get away with it, and I doubt it would go to a criminal court. It would be far more likely to go to a civil (County) court for a judgement, with no penalty more severe than a CCJ involved. However CCJ's aren't something you want to get, unless you do want any form of credit application for the next few years.