13-03-2003 14:33									#211
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 Very good idea, I was going to propose something like that, but I wasn't sure where the industry square was used. Make sure you make Baku very important (oil) I may have found something very cool, what is the farthest you've seen the Germans conquer in the east in the new version? And have the Neutral Allies stayed neutral in the new version? Pap

In my most recent game,
The Germans are currently involved in slug-outs with the Soviets at the gates of Stalingrad and Moscow,
It seems their truimph is near!

I was playing neutral, and even with diplomacy firmly off, the Eastern Allies have invited my to join a 'crusade' against Japan!

Are they mad?

	13-03-2003 14:35									#212
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PS
I have got some cool event rewards lined up for taking over the major cities!

	13-03-2003 14:39									#213
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Good, looking forward to them...here are some more random thoughts from the game I am playing on Diety in June 1943...

1. My P-40 was bribed away by the Japs, what unit can bribe?

2. I think the Japs should have Ship Building V at the start, but they should be the only ones because they had an operational Super Battleship in 1941 so they should be researching that instead in my test they reached Ship Building V in March, if they get Super Battleship tech in March it would be pretty accurate

3. You should probably connect Chicago to Pittsburgh by railroad since from Chicago you can get to either coast in one turn, it makes it easier on the player taht way.

4. Nice job with the Barbarossa event! I do think however, that you should have the text about it accompany the killing of the unit that sparks the event.

5. I had the ability to research Barbarossa?

6. Have Japan go to war with the Neutral allies in October 1941 so they can take over Bangkok. They historically annexed it without fighting, but... That is the only neutral city around so there won't be any other problems.

7.Good idea giving the Americans the ability to build Supply Trucks from the start lend-lease

	13-03-2003 14:49									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 Good, looking forward to them...here are some more random thoughts from the game I am playing on Diety in June 1943...

*gets his note book ready*

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 1. My P-40 was bribed away by the Japs, what unit can bribe?

That must be that weird CIV2 bug...
The Type97 is sitting where the diplomat normally is in the unit slots...
I can change the diplo bribe text, and call it a capture of materials by enemy forces!

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 2. I think the Japs should have Ship Building V at the start, but they should be the only ones because they had an operational Super Battleship in 1941 so they should be researching that instead in my test they reached Ship Building V in March, if they get Super Battleship tech in March it would be pretty accurate

They start with a super BB, I think. I can change this.
I will script a new event for march 1941!

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 3. You should probably connect Chicago to Pittsburgh by railroad since from Chicago you can get to either coast in one turn, it makes it easier on the player taht way.

You got it!

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 4. Nice job with the Barbarossa event! I do think however, that you should have the text about it accompany the killing of the unit that sparks the event.

I agree, a slight events tweak will fix that!

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 5. I had the ability to research Barbarossa?

Just a left over from the tech-tree shuffle, don't worry about it.
The tech tree is almost replanted at the time of writing.

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 6. Have Japan go to war with the Neutral allies in October 1941 so they can take over Bangkok. They historically annexed it without fighting, but... That is the only neutral city around so there won't be any other problems.

Sounds do-able! I'll add an event.

quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 7.Good idea giving the Americans the ability to build Supply Trucks from the start lend-lease

I will make sure this still happens in the new tech build.

	13-03-2003 21:26									#215
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Here is the latest tech tree plan that will be put inot practice tonight!

A whole new tree, it no longer has wasted techs, and still has room for additions in the bonus tech slots.
For the scenario, I plan to use the bonus techs to give each main civ 2 historical war leaders...

Alternately, I might use them for extending tech research into realms of
air power and ballistic missiles...useful for use in future scenarios!



Here's the plan...
Guys, Tell me if you think there are any techs I missed!

-------------------------------------------------------------
GERMANS
-------------------------------------------------------------
Nazi Dictatorship, 0, 0, no, nil, 3, 3 ; Fun
H Class Battleships, 0, 0, no, nil, 3, 3 ; MP
Blitzkrieg, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 1 ; Mat
Me262 Jet Fighter, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 1 ; Med 50
Uber Soldaten, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 1 ; Met
Tiger Tank, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 1 ; Phy
Panther Tank, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 1 ; Pla
King Tiger, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 1 ; Plu
Vengeance Weapons, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 1 ; PT
Blitzkrieg, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 1 ; Pot 65
-------------------------------------------------------------
USA
-------------------------------------------------------------
Allied Liberty, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 3 ; Dem
US Army Air Corps, 0, 0, no, nil, 2, 2 ; Uni 85
US Mass Production, 0, 0, no, nil, 2, 2 ; War
US Marine Corps, 0, 0, no, nil, 2, 2 ; Whe
P51 Mustang, 0, 0, no, nil, 2, 2 ; Wri
Lend Lease Plan, 0, 0, Ind, nil, 0, 3 ; Tra
-------------------------------------------------------------
BRITAIN
-------------------------------------------------------------
Allied Liberty, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 3 ; Dem
Centurion Tank, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 2 ; Hor
Royal Commandos, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 2 ; Iro
UK Home Guard, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 2 ; Tac
RAF Bomber Command, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 2 ; The
Typhoon Fighter, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 2 ; ToG
-------------------------------------------------------------
USSR
-------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 0 ; Gue
Soviet Red Army, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 2 ; Cmn 15
Stormovik, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 2 ; SFl
Guard Regiments, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 2 ; Sth
Yak9 Fighter, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 2 ; SE
Katyusha, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 2 ; Stl
Stalin Tank, 0, 0, no, nil, 1, 2 ; Sup 80
-------------------------------------------------------------
JAPAN
-------------------------------------------------------------
Ki100 Tony Fighter, 0, 0, Iro, nil, 3, 2 ; Gen
Imperial Air Force, 0, 0, no, nil, 3, 2 ; Mag 45
Imperial Navy, 0, 0, no, nil, 3, 2 ; Map
Bakufu Warfare, 0, 0, no, nil, 3, 2 ; Mas
Bakufu Warfare II, 0, 0, no, nil, 3, 2 ; Sea 75
-------------------------------------------------------------
OTHER CIVS
Resistance, 0, 0, no, nil, 0, 0 ; Gue
Nationalist Army, 0, 0, no, nil, 2, 1 ; FP
-------------------------------------------------------------
Bonus Techs
-------------------------------------------------------------
Von Braun, 0, 0, nil, nil, 0, 2 ; U1 90
Rommel, 0, 0, nil, nil, 2, 0 ; U2
Alexander, 0, 0, nil, nil, 2, 0 ; U3
Dowding, 0, 0, nil, nil, 2, 4 ; X1
MacArthur, 0, 0, nil, nil, 0, 4 ; X2
Patton, 0, 0, nil, nil, 3, 4 ; X3 95
Nagumo, 0, 0, nil, nil, 1, 2 ; X4
Yamamoto, 0, 0, nil, nil, 1, 4 ; X5
Zhukov, 0, 0, nil, nil, 2, 3 ; X6
Timoshenko, 0, 0, nil, nil, 3, 3 ; X7 99
-------------------------------------------------------------
User Def Tech A, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; U1 90
User Def Tech B, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; U2
User Def Tech C, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; U3
Extra Advance 1, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X1
Extra Advance 2, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X2
Extra Advance 3, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X3 95
Extra Advance 4, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X4
Extra Advance 5, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X5
Extra Advance 6, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X6
Extra Advance 7, 3, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; X7 99
-------------------------------------------------------------
Industry
-------------------------------------------------------------
Commerce, 5, 0, nil, nil, 0, 3 ; Cmp
Banking, 5, 0, Cmp, nil, 0, 3 ; Cor
War Economy, 5, 0, Cor, nil, 0, 3 ; Cst
State Farming, 5, 0, Min, nil, 0, 4 ; Rfg 70
Electrification, 5, 0, Cor, nil, 0, 3 ; E1
Rail Network, 5, 0, Cst, nil, 0, 3 ; RR
National Industry, 6, 0, Rfg, nil, 0, 3 ; Ind
Heavy Industry, 5, 0, E1, nil, 0, 3 ; Eco
Total War Industry, 5, 0, Cst, nil, 0, 3 ; Cur 20
-------------------------------------------------------------
Defence
-------------------------------------------------------------
Governmental Power, 5, 0, nil, nil, 1, 3 ; Cer
Regional Control, 5, 0, Cer, nil, 1, 3 ; Che 10
Conscription, 5, 0, Che, nil, 0, 0 ; Csc
Military Tactics, 5, 0, nil, nil, 0, 4 ; Esp
Weapon Design I, 5, 0, Csc, nil, 1, 0 ; CoL
Weapon Design II, 5, 0, CoL, nil, 1, 0 ; CA
Weapon Design III, 5, 0, CA, nil, 1, 0 ; Cmb
Air Defence Regiments, 5, 0, Csc, nil, 1, 0 ; Chi
Naval Defence Regiments,5, 0, Csc, nil, 0, 0 ; Eng 25
State Police, 5, 0, Che, nil, 0, 0 ; Env
Weapon Design IV, 5, 0, Cmb, nil, 2, 3 ; Exp
Weapon Design V, 5, 0, Exp, nil, 2, 3 ; Feu
-------------------------------------------------------------
Naval
-------------------------------------------------------------
Ship Design I, 5, 0, Cer, nil, 2, 0 ; Ast
Ship Design II, 6, 0, Ast, nil, 2, 0 ; Ato
Ship Design III, 7, 0, Ato, nil, 2, 0 ; Aut 5
Ship Design IV, 8, 0, Aut, nil, 2, 0 ; Ban
Ship Design V, 9, 0, Ban, nil, 2, 0 ; Bri
Amphibious Assault, 5, 0, Esp, nil, 2, 0 ; Amp
Coastal Defences, 5, 0, Eng, nil, 2, 0 ; Bro
Super Battleships, 5, 0, Bri, Eco, 0, 4 ; Ref
-------------------------------------------------------------
Airforce
-------------------------------------------------------------
Civilian Flight, 5, 0, Cur, nil, 3, 4 ; Fli 30
Advanced Flight, 5, 0, Fli, nil, 3, 4 ; AFl 0
Advanced Flight II, 6, 0, AFl, nil, 3, 4 ; Alp
Advanced Flight III, 9, 0, Roc, nil, 2, 4 ; Ldr
Jet Flight I, 6, 0, Lit, nil, 2, 4 ; Too
Jet Flight II, 7, 0, Alp, nil, 3, 4 ; Rob
Jet Flight III, 8, 0, Rob, nil, 3, 4 ; San
Advanced Jet Flight, 5, 0, Rad, nil, 0, 4 ; E2
-------------------------------------------------------------
Science
-------------------------------------------------------------
Science Funding, 5, 0, Cer, nil, 1, 3 ; Gun 35
Research Effort, 6, 0, Gun, nil, 1, 4 ; Inv
Research Effort II, 5, 0, Inv, nil, 1, 4 ; Rec
Research Effort III, 5, 0, Rec, nil, 0, 4 ; Phi 60
Radar, 5, 0, Phi, nil, 0, 4 ; Rad
Sonar, 7, 0, Phi, nil, 0, 4 ; NP
Advanced Manufacturing, 6, 0, Phi, nil, 1, 3 ; Lab 40
Missile Research, 6, 0, Phi, nil, 1, 4 ; Las
Rocket Engine, 8, 0, Phi, nil, 3, 0 ; Roc
Jet Engine, 6, 0, Phi, nil, 2, 4 ; Lit
-------------------------------------------------------------
The Bomb
-------------------------------------------------------------
Atom Bomb Research, 5, 0, Phi, nil, 0, 4 ; Mys
Atom Bomb Research II, 5, 0, Mys, nil, 0, 4 ; Nav
Atom Bomb Research III, 5, 0, Nav, nil, 0, 4 ; NF
-------------------------------------------------------------
Wonder Rewards
-------------------------------------------------------------
Automated Factory, 90, 0, Lab, Advanced Manufacturing
Weapons Test Facility, 90, 0, Feu, Weapon Design V
Nuclear Power Plant, 90, 0, Nav, Atom Bomb Research II
Advanced Aerospace Plant, 90, 0, Ldr, Advanced Flight III
National Railway System, 60, 0, Cur, Total War Industry
Atom Bomb Project, 90, 0, NF, Atom Bomb Research III
Supersonic Flight Program,90, 0, E2, Advanced Jet Flight
Secret Weapon Facility, 90, 0, Roc, Jet Flight

	13-03-2003 21:52									#216
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Looks good to me!

	13-03-2003 22:49									#217
	Remove this text

In fact the german industry was fearsome strong. Although they were outproduced (mainly by Sowjets and USA) they were able to produce the strongest war machine the world has ever seen (until Stalingrad massacre). I would suggest to place @least as many german citys as there are French citys placed. And I would make the "Industry tile" with 20 food, 1 shield, 20 trade and 14 or 9 shield bonus if it is mined. So you can destroy the enemy's production by razing his industry to the ground (this is what the soviets have done during their retreat). I would also suggest that it needs @least 2/3 turns to rebuild mines/industry

Attachment: nicholas.jpg
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	13-03-2003 22:57									#218
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About the bribe thing:

It has come to my attention after countless normal civ2 games that on Deity level the AI can bribe with any unit.

It only does so quite rarely, thank god.

	13-03-2003 23:19									#219
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

ehm well... almoust forgot! Norway is really unimportant in your scenario yet! But whats with the Norway-Iron Ore! Hitler just occuoied it because of that!

	13-03-2003 23:55									#220
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos About the bribe thing: It has come to my attention after countless normal civ2 games that on Deity level the AI can bribe with any unit. It only does so quite rarely, thank god.

That I put down to the insane AI...
But as you say, it's a rare thing, I have never seen it.

The units are too busy trying to massacre each other m,ost of the time!

	13-03-2003 23:56									#221
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quote: Originally posted by NikolajRomanov In fact the german industry was fearsome strong. Although they were outproduced (mainly by Sowjets and USA) they were able to produce the strongest war machine the world has ever seen (until Stalingrad massacre). I would suggest to place @least as many german citys as there are French citys placed. And I would make the "Industry tile" with 20 food, 1 shield, 20 trade and 14 or 9 shield bonus if it is mined. So you can destroy the enemy's production by razing his industry to the ground (this is what the soviets have done during their retreat). I would also suggest that it needs @least 2/3 turns to rebuild mines/industry

Sounds like a plan, Nick!
I will see to it...

	14-03-2003 02:17									#222
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If any or all of these issues have already been addressed, my apologies: (NOTE: these occured playing the USA on King difficulty)

Aukland needs a c before the k
The "Make Landfall" menu has amphibious misspelt

The German AI uses Panzergrenadiers to attack
The D-Day event creates units in North Africa
The Soviets and Nazis briefly made peace in early 1942
The same occured between Nazis and British and Nazis and Eastern Allies in late 1941
The Soviet Pacific Fleet has spent the whole game floating off California, not really sure what can be done about it.
The WoW Heinrich Himmler has been lost

The British seized Trondheim and Narvik in June/July 1941, the Nazis made no attempt to recapture them, again, not really sure how to solve this problem.
The Barbarossa event, triggered when the Nazis killed an Eastern infantry/partisan, worked well, but I don't understand why a Red Army unit appeared south of Hamburg.

By November, 1943, a Second Front opened with the liberation of Toulouse, St. Nazaire, and Paris. These were followed by Brest, Amsterdam, and Germany proper, with Berlin falling very early to heavy bombardment in March 1944. Of course, since then, the remaining Nazis have been crushed between me and the Soviets, resulting in several battles between US and USSR troops in and around Riga, Warsaw, and Kiev.

In the East, Japan has over-run the Philippines, Hong-Kong, Suva, and 90% of China and Northern India, pressing towards the Middle East. Chaos will soon reign, as I, in October 1944, am perhaps one year away from deployment of Atomic Bombs...

	14-03-2003 02:36									#223
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

To clarify one thing: Heinrich Himmler has never existed in the scenario.

Point of Personal Privilege: Could you name "The US President" something else, like FDR or (even better) Harry Truman?

By the way, what will the Leader techs do?

	14-03-2003 02:46									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor Aukland needs a c before the k

Oops! I'll fix that!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The "Make Landfall" menu has amphibious misspelt

And that too!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The German AI uses Panzergrenadiers to attack

They do attack sometimes, regardless of their defence role.

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The D-Day event creates units in North Africa

Hmmm, The Axis may have been taking up all the coastal real estate,
causing the AI to spawn them randomly, I will check this out.

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The Soviets and Nazis briefly made peace in early 1942. The same occured between Nazis and British and Nazis and Eastern Allies in late 1941

That is a weird AI gltich, the combatants keep fighting though...

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The Soviet Pacific Fleet has spent the whole game floating off California, not really sure what can be done about it.

This is another AI thing, but can you blame them?
I would like to stay in California for the the war too!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The WoW Heinrich Himmler has been lost

About time!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor The British seized Trondheim and Narvik in June/July 1941, the Nazis made no attempt to recapture them, again, not really sure how to solve this problem. The Barbarossa event, triggered when the Nazis killed an Eastern infantry/partisan, worked well, but I don't understand why a Red Army unit appeared south of Hamburg.

I will look into this Red Army loner...

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor By November, 1943, a Second Front opened with the liberation of Toulouse, St. Nazaire, and Paris. These were followed by Brest, Amsterdam, and Germany proper, with Berlin falling very early to heavy bombardment in March 1944. Of course, since then, the remaining Nazis have been crushed between me and the Soviets, resulting in several battles between US and USSR troops in and around Riga, Warsaw, and Kiev.

Give em' hell!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor In the East, Japan has over-run the Philippines, Hong-Kong, Suva, and 90% of China and Northern India, pressing towards the Middle East. Chaos will soon reign, as I, in October 1944, am perhaps one year away from deployment of Atomic Bombs...

Sounds like a good game your having!

I will get onto and fix these glitches!

	14-03-2003 02:55									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor To clarify one thing: Heinrich Himmler has never existed in the scenario.

Yep, Himmler and these other VIPs merely all reside in their capital cities, waiting for your troops to drag them out!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor Point of Personal Privilege: Could you name "The US President" something else, like FDR or (even better) Harry Truman?

About The President, I kept him unamed to avoid any continuity issues...

But dammit, why not! FDR it is...Hail to the chief!

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor By the way, what will the Leader techs do?

This has changed, I decided to use the CIV2 bonus techs to extend the missile science route.
This leads to AA Missile Defences (SDI), it will take the player ages to get near this tech level...

	14-03-2003 03:42									#226
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Any idea when the newest version will be ready?

	14-03-2003 04:57									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Xenozod Any idea when the newest version will be ready?

I hope to have the newest playtest version ready tomorrow late-afternoon or night.

Soon the scenario will be heading for a release-worthy status.
I will give you chaps a final test version to try out prior to that.

	14-03-2003 12:30									#228
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I apologise for being late with my feedback Curt but I have that damn much to do. IŽll post my feedback/comment/whatever on Sunday (latest).

	14-03-2003 12:51									#229
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse I apologise for being late with my feedback Curt but I have that damn much to do. IŽll post my feedback/comment/whatever on Sunday (latest).

It's no problem, dude!

I know how you feel, there's not enough hours in the day!

PS
Just wanna say a huge thank you to all!

I have been bowled over by the great help and time you chaps have gave me to help develop the scenario.

	14-03-2003 16:45									#230
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Calling all playtesters! Help!

Large problem! Needs group-mind effort!

The scenario is rejceting these rules.txt, and crashing to desktop.

Typical CIV2 behaviour when confronted with a typo/bug.

I thought it was the events file, but the scenario runs OK with events, but not when I add the rules file too.

I think there may be a typo or something, maybe in the new tech tree...
But I have searched and found nothing...My eyes are melting out of my head, however, with 7 days of civ2 mania...

This is a bummer and holding up production, anyone want to help me nail this bug?

I am stumped...

If so, please cast an eye over these rules and tell me if you spot anything that looks like a mistake...

Thanks in advance...

Attachment: rules.txt
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	14-03-2003 17:16									#231
	Inflate your Upload Space

sorry, id really like to, but i think i dont have the abilitys...

	14-03-2003 17:39									#232
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No worries, I am sure there are otehr bug-hunters out there!

	14-03-2003 18:39									#233
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No commas after last four tech names in @CIVILIZE. Didn't look beyond that. It's apparent when you load the entire Rules.txt into Excel.

	14-03-2003 18:42									#234
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No comma after Public House in @IMPROVE. Other sections seem to have all the commas.

	14-03-2003 19:35									#235
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Boco, you have saved the day!
I've been staring at those rules to long, and missing the obvious!

10 x Thank you!

	15-03-2003 02:19									#236
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Just got home, and will get on playtesting this thing immediately.

	15-03-2003 02:32									#237
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How fast are these updates coming?

Have to start all over again.....

	15-03-2003 02:40									#238
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I sent you the latest update tonight, It has extensive tech tree changes!

Hopefully once any tweaks are done this will be the last one before I publish the full scenario!

As always, feel free to make any comments/suggestions!

	15-03-2003 03:00									#239
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Have I told you lately that I love your gfx, Curt?

Anyway, if you need more camo tanks just tell me. In the meantime I could offer also a PzKpfw V Panther with camo too ....

	15-03-2003 03:04									#240
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Sorry curt, but my first impressions are negative.

1.The Himmler wonder is lost. Another fellow has already pointed that out. The way to get around it is to delete a wonder from a city before razing it. It is too late now i think....

2.The V-2 has been replaced by that rocket launcher. Taking into account that the V-2s were used against England(and its launching bases were one of the Allied prime targets in Normandy) one can only wonder how realistic loading the launchers into transports and set sail for England, would be.

3.No partizans appear after the chinese cities fall!

4.All civs should have the trade tech as it allows to view the cities that are objective.