07-03-2003 02:05									#31
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Tell me about those 'Hawks. I picked Theo Fleury on the hopes of his rehab program.

Lot of good that did me.

	07-03-2003 02:21									#32
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Theo, likes to fall off the wagon. About a month ago, after a game, he (and many team members) visited a strip club and got into an altercation. The incident became very public and lot's of players had to make explanations to spouses and gfs. Theo had to make even more explanations. Up to then, the Hawks were positioned well for the playoffs. Since then, I think they've only won two games and are poised for an early summer. Most media and fans are pointing to that incident as the turning point in the Hawks season.

RAH

	07-03-2003 02:25									#33
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The signing of Theo Fleury was the hockey equivalent of the Cubs getting Todd Hundley.

	07-03-2003 02:27									#34
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Come on, Sava! No one deserves to be compared to Todd Hundley after he got injured (when he was on the Mets) .

	07-03-2003 02:29									#35
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... the Hawks have lost 8 in a row, Theo hasn't been contributing jacksh1t... he's a cancer to the team. At least Todd was just an 4sshole. Theo has completely derailed any Hawks' playoff hopes.

	07-03-2003 05:22									#36
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Theo was good till he left Calgary...

	07-03-2003 05:31									#37
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The problem with Tucker is he goes nuts at the wrong time. In the game against Ottawa, Toronto still had a chance with the score 3-1 and 10 minutes left, but Tucker screwed everything.

The Nolan trade is the type a team has to do if they want to try for the Cup. They gave up two great prospects, but they get a great power forward.

	07-03-2003 05:41									#38
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The Leafs still have no hope of winning the cup unless they can get at least two really solid defensemen. Right now, their defense blows, and you can't go all the way with that. Once you get deep into the playoffs, defense rules. Regardless, I'll still put my money on any team that comes out of the West - it's just such a superior conference.

	07-03-2003 06:17									#39
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The favorites are still the Red Wings, the Avs, the Devils, the Leafs, and--maybe--the Stars.

I put the Canucks a tier below these teams; they might very well be the most talented and exciting team in the league, but goaltending will remain a question mark in the playoffs until Cloutier shows he can win.

Now, one could say the same thing about the Stars with Marty Turco. However, I watched Turco as a four year starter with the University of Michigan, including a couple of NCAA titles. The man in CLUTCH. In four years at U-M, he never--and I mean, never--lost a game in which he went into the third period with a lead. I believe his record was 103-0-2 when leading after two periods. That's insane. I don't know if he will translate that level of success to the NHL playoffs, but I'd be a fool to bet against him. If I had to pick a team to win it all right now, it'd be the Stars.

It hurt to type that.

	07-03-2003 15:23									#40
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quote: The favorites are still the Red Wings, the Avs, the Devils, the Leafs, and--maybe--the Stars.

Yes, yes, yes, no, yes.

quote: I put the Canucks a tier below these teams; they might very well be the most talented and exciting team in the league, but goaltending will remain a question mark in the playoffs until Cloutier shows he can win.

Whaaa? How can the Leafs be a major contender (with their poor attitude and lacklustre defense), while the Canucks are relegated to "second tier"? Cloutier is a fine goalie. Young, but quite solid. I'd trust him more than Theodore. But that's just my opinion, I suppose.

But for overall Cup favourites, I've gotta say the Avs at this point. They're coming on strong when it's needed most, and the simple fact that they've got Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, and Roy on the same team is enough to make them a serious threat, in my eyes.

	08-03-2003 00:07									#41
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Cloutier does need to prove himself, but I think this will be the year he does. I don't think Vancouver will get past the second round, but it won't be Dan's fault.

	08-03-2003 00:14									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki I'd love to see Tucker get the crap pounded out of him - same goes for Domi. I'm first and foremost a Vancouver fan, but I do cheer for the Leafs in the East (I should - I live in Toronto). It just amazes me that the Leafs think that there is this vendetta against them by the refs/league brass/rest of the league but can't understand why. I have never, ever seen a team collectively whine, make stupid decisions and complain about everything as much as the Leafs. At least Gary Roberts seems to be having enough. After everyone else on the team vented about how much the refs cost them the game, Roberts had the integrity to say that the team needs to back off the refs.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In any case the refereeing in the Ottawa game was atrocious.

The Leafs/Sabres game was pretty good - four good scraps even though the Leafs were missing two regular pugilists.

	08-03-2003 00:22									#43
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The wings won't win because Joseph just isn't good enough when things get bad. The Leafs have already discovered this. Part of the reason that Joseph looks good is that he pulls off spectacular saves, however, the reason he has to make such saves is because his positioning is bad.

Joseph is a good goalie but when the game reaches a certain level he is a liability. I reckon Vancouver will chew up the west. But for a lapse in concentration and then confidence from Cloutier last year I think they would have won the cup.

Anyway, the Leafs have a good chance of making it to the final because they are the toughest team in the east. They almost made it to the final last year with one hand tied behind their back - I predict they will grind their way to the final, but will probably not have enough left to beat Vancouver or Dallas, one of whom they will probably face.

	08-03-2003 00:25									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Which came first, the chicken or the egg? In any case the refereeing in the Ottawa game was atrocious. The Leafs/Sabres game was pretty good - four good scraps even though the Leafs were missing two regular pugilists.

Which is the chicken and which is the egg?

Actually, the pissing and moaning on the Leafs' part definitely came first. Their team is loaded with some of the most unpopular players in the league, and they're disliked for a good reason.

	08-03-2003 00:31									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The wings won't win because Joseph just isn't good enough when things get bad. The Leafs have already discovered this. Part of the reason that Joseph looks good is that he pulls off spectacular saves, however, the reason he has to make such saves is because his positioning is bad. Joseph is a good goalie but when the game reaches a certain level he is a liability. I reckon Vancouver will chew up the west. But for a lapse in concentration and then confidence from Cloutier last year I think they would have won the cup. Anyway, the Leafs have a good chance of making it to the final because they are the toughest team in the east. They almost made it to the final last year with one hand tied behind their back - I predict they will grind their way to the final, but will probably not have enough left to beat Vancouver or Dallas, one of whom they will probably face.

I agree with the assessment about Detroit, although with all the other talent on that team, and with a solid number 2 (should he be number 1?) goalie in Legace, you can never really count them out.

As for the East, I'd actually say that Philadelphia is the toughest team, but they're always a wildcard in the playoffs. The last couple of years, they've been brutal. At the same time, they have the ability to smoke just about anyone. Personally, I'll go with New Jersey (shudder) to come out of the East. Although, if Ottawa can avoid/beat the Leafs, I might bet on them.

As I said, I love Vancouver in the West, but my gut feeling is that they'll make it to the second round and get knocked out. I hope that isn't the case, but I'm worried about their offensive depth. My money is on Colorado or Dallas.

	08-03-2003 00:42									#46
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I want to see Jersey play the Wings again in the finals. We'll take 'em out in 4 again .

	08-03-2003 01:32									#47
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I'm not a big hockey fan... but the Toronto Maple Leafs are the worst form of scum in sports today. I wish them much pain and suffering, like that which they intentionally and coldly caused on the New York Islanders.

	08-03-2003 01:40									#48
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quote: Originally posted by reismark ....like that which they intentionally and coldly caused on the New York Islanders.

Heh heh heh

	08-03-2003 01:43									#49
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Reismark, you're right. You aren't a big hockey fan. It wasn't like in the Islander's headay they are nice boys. Bossy and co. were just as dirty.

	08-03-2003 02:23									#50
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quote: but goaltending will remain a question mark in the playoffs until Cloutier shows he can win.

How many games has he won this season?

They sure miss him after that debacle against Columbus. First OT loss this season.

That's the biggest strike against the Canucks, they've got lots of depth, but they rely on key players. What happens if Naslund goes down again?

	08-03-2003 03:29									#51
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Well if the Canucks lose their top few players then they aren't going to win, but that goes for any team in my opinion.

Anyway, votes for best fighter in the NHL

Domi: a good scrapper but tends to have trouble with really big guys because of his small size.

Brashear: a bad sport but a good fighter except that he wusses out too often when challenged.

Laraque: all round pretty good goon.

Stock: what a guy. I love this one http://64.106.200.81/clips/030103vand1.mpg

Go visit the site http://www.broadstreetbully.com There's a few clips there but the guy has a lot more which he hasn't put up on his new site yet.

	09-03-2003 03:34									#52
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Move this to the top.

Does no one have votes for the NHL's best fighter.

The Leafs must be the best fighting team; after all most of them are reasonable goons; Domi, Belak, Roberts, Corson, Tucker, McCabe, all fight and Antropov likes fighting. Even one of the prospects took on Rob Ray in Buffalo the other night.

	09-03-2003 03:59									#53
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Bah. Screw fighting. Interesting sideshow? Sure. Essential to the forging of a team's success? Very, very rarely. I can't think of a single Important Fight, other than Darren McCarty's punishment of Claude Lemieux. ****er had it coming.

As to why I think Toronto has a better chance than Vancouver--it all comes down to Crazy Eddie. He's a proven playoff goalie. There's every possibility that he'll lose his mind and somehow cause the downfall of the Leafs, but at least he has been to the mountaintop. Cloutier hasn't gotten out of the first round. However, I'd be stunned if that didn't change after this year's playoffs--even if the Avs catch the Canucks, there's no way the Blues will be able to beat Vancouver in a seven game series.

The only possible way Vancouver loses in the first round--the Avs pass them for the division title, and the Blues pass the Red Wings, leading to another Detroit-Vancouver series. Any other situation, the Canucks get to at least the second round. How far they go after that sits on Cloutier's shoulders.


--------------

Okay, here are a few questions:

The red line--should it stay or should it go?

Overtime losses--sure, the extra point leads to more exciting play in OT. But a loss is a loss; at least it should be. How about this: three points for a victory, one point for a tie, and overtime returns to 5-on-5?

Contraction--the NHL is deep in the red. Should it contract a few franchises to stem losses and increase quality of play?

	09-03-2003 04:02									#54
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Brashear was pretty much the undisputed champ for a few years, but I think he may be starting to wind down a bit. Laraque is a freakin' monster - he's listed at 6'3" (thought he was taller?) and 250lbs. It's hard to tell who the current champ is, since fighting in general is down this year.

As a team, again I'd go with Philadelphia. They always seem to try to have the biggest, toughest team in the East if not the league. Vancouver has one of the bigger and tougher teams in the West, actually, so tonight's game should be a good one.

	09-03-2003 04:12									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Okay, here are a few questions: The red line--should it stay or should it go? Overtime losses--sure, the extra point leads to more exciting play in OT. But a loss is a loss; at least it should be. How about this: three points for a victory, one point for a tie, and overtime returns to 5-on-5? Contraction--the NHL is deep in the red. Should it contract a few franchises to stem losses and increase quality of play?

Red Line - keep it. Introduce no-tough icing, though.

OT losses - I think the system works well the way it is. Those calling for a shootout are out of their minds, and most hockey experts agree that 4-on-4 creates much more exciting play than 5-on-5. I may consider lengthening OT from the current 5 minutes, but it does keep the games a respectable length.

Contraction - perhaps, although not totally necessary, IMO. The league did make a collosal mistake expanding into rediculous markets like Atlanta, Florida, Tampa Bay and a couple of others, but I think the league overall can handle it. The biggest problem with contraction is that the cities most likely to lose their franchises aren't the ones that should. Currently, the teams on the bubble would be Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Ottawa (maybe Phoenix), but Atlanta, Florida and Carolina are the teams that really don't make sense.

A salary cap, on the other hand, is desperately needed.

	09-03-2003 05:29									#56
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I agree with Kontiki mostly.

A salary cap is needed. Hopefully it'd even things out a little. I don't think I could fathom a hockey league with teams in Atlanta and Florida, but not Edmonton and Ottawa.

4on4 OT works fine, in my opinion.

The red line should stay. Cherry-picking and constant breakaways are not my idea of good hockey.

As for fighting: Blah. Not an important part of the game. They could outlaw it, for all I care. I much prefer the powerful, legal bodychecks to the punches. I do like Laraque, though... Not because of how he fights, but because of how he handles the puck in the opponents' zone. He can keep that thing on his stick with one hand, while fending off a 200lb defenseman with the other, and still make a decent pass out into the slot.

The problem is, there's usually no one there to receive the pass, because his linemates have unpolished positioning skills.

	09-03-2003 08:57									#57
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Can you imagine the league with a solid salary cap in place? It'd be amazingly competitive, closer to the days of not-so-long-ago (earlier 80s). Even without it, the NHL is much more competitive than, say, MLB since have not teams can legitimately be threats.

The biggest problem, of course, is that I doubt the NHLPA will go for it.

	09-03-2003 10:00									#58
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I think hockey needs fighting to provide some incentive to avoid cheap shots. The referees and the rules don't seem to work.

Anyway, sport is basically a toned down version of war so what's wrong with a little biffo.

The league does need a salary cap and it also needs a redistribution scheme to help small market teams.

	09-03-2003 10:28									#59
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I don't really follow the best fighters, but I will cheer a crushing clean check.

I'm still worried about those Avs. Too close for my comfort.

That was a good game tonight with Toronto, Crazy Eddie stood on his head and fails to receive a star.

The canucks outshot Toronto 2:1 and salvage a tie.

Did you like the game Agathon?

	09-03-2003 10:53									#60
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This Just In: Marchment goes to Colorado for some draft picks.

FRIG, the Avs are gonna be just unstoppable now. They have Marchment to take out the other teams best players (and if he can't get them, Blake will still get in their way), and the firepower up-front to take advantage of the weakened results...

My prediction: Avs in 2003.

(That is, if they can get passed the Oil... )