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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:26
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That’s all. See you tomorrow DD, Johnny Walker awaits me, today is international holiday and I’m still dry. Wtf?
Bye.
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Jaakko
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in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Krav Maga |
McDojo.
-------
BTW, that sand berm story isn't true. I can't remember where it was rebutted, but I did read it somewhere.
We're talking several metres of sand here, meaning a huge energy transfer to penetrate the sand. And after that, the round still needs to pack enough punch to kill a tank.
Then there's also the fact that DU rounds break up easily, which is pretty critical because a big part of the round's penetration capability is due to the weird-ass adiabatic shear property it has (this is also why ERA is effective against it).
Also, if you want to know why the Iraqi T-72s waged so badly against the US in the Gulf War, look no further than the Russians. There's supposed to be an inner layer of volcanic rock alloy stuff in the tank's armour, but the Russians left it off the export versions.
Also, the only effective round the Iraqis had was HEAT (which most modern tanks resist extremely well due to ceramic laminated armour), because once again the Russians had sold them crapulous export versions of their AP ammo, without a proper penetrator (shoulda been tungsten carbide, was probably manganese steel).
Not that it would have made a difference in the end, but the contrast may not have been quite as stark as it was.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:26
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quote:
Anyone can compare the marine fighting to Krav Maga training at Basis Adam ? |
I can tell you that from the description, the Marine training is tougher than Krav Maga training, especially if they are incorporate Thai boxing or something similar (sounds as if they are).
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Grandpa Troll
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I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
If they're unable to fight during real combat due to training injuries, it undermines the effectiveness of the unit. Everyone has an organizational role - not an individual role, but as a distinct part, so unnecessary losses are to be avoided. |
Plus another point to be made is that while a person may be able to withstand a certain level of punishment another may not. I am an Area Manager with S & W Ready Mix Concrete Company covering Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, Marine Corps Air Station New River, Camp Geiger and Camp Johnson. I have been fortunate to be privileged to the training they have, as article stated, been training like this for several years. As an Avid Martial Artist and former Military member, I feel we need to have our troops train for one-on-one. It is not "Hand-2-Tank" fighting that we need emphasizing on, but more committment and more understanding the finality of War, adapt and overcome, learn to deal with pain, dont shock-out when you are being choked or gouged or face down in sand-mud and water, allways be thinking of a way out. The life you can save could be you or your buddies!!
I say Hats off to the training and no its not "Breaking News" but most deservedly some attention to the committment level of our Military Machine.
Semper Fi Devil Dogs!!
Grandpa Troll
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:26
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quote:
I can tell you that from the description, the Marine training is tougher than Krav Maga training, especially if they are incorporate Thai boxing or something similar (sounds as if they are).
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http://www.isayeret.com/terror/school.htm:
quote:
Contact Combat
While the CT School shooting training and the CQB training are the fun part of the CT course. The hard part and the part that gave the CT course its infamous reputation is the Contact Combat training.
Contact Combat (Krav Maga) in Hebrew, is the Israeli SF marital art technique. It was developed and refined throughout the 1970's for and by Israeli SF. Unlike other commonly used martial arts, Contact Combat isn't built around an oriental harmony philosophy of some sort. Instead it's a brutal non-nonsense highly effective technique that combines all the nasty elements found in other martial arts. The Contact Combat state is reflects aggressiveness and decisiveness, and with but one goal in mind - to quickly disarm and incapacitate the enemy by all means necessary.
In the CT school, the Contact Combat training is integrated in the CT course and are on a daily bases. The CT school Contact Combat training are made of two types:
Lessons which teach basic teachings.
Aggressiveness Training which has dual roles - to boost up the soldiers aggressive nature, and to train the soldiers in absorbing and sustaining heavy beating (Absorption Training).
Various drills are used in the Contact Combat lessons to encounter the student with violent situations, in which he must demonstrate brutal aggressiveness in order to prevail. For example, one such drill known as the "Death Row" involves one soldier which is standing at one end of the room, and he have to get to the other side of the room with a line of other soldiers standing in the way, so he must literally go through them. The other soldiers' role is of course to prevent that individual soldier from achieving his goal.
Student in a desperate attempt to pass the "Death Row".
Another such drill is the "Ring”, which is made of a group of soldiers standing in circle facing each other. Then at the instructor's order each soldier must go in straight line directly to the soldier in front of him. Since all the soldiers in the circle are doing the same thing simultaneously, this drill involves massive beating from all sides.
In the absorption training the drills are much more simplified and basically involved a soldier in a certain position, with several instructors beating the crap out of him. For example a basic such drill involve one student standing a firing position with several instructors beating him with kicks and punches from all sides. Through out the drill the student must maintain a stable firing position as possible.
Typical absorption training - a student standing wearing minimal protection (middle) with three CT instructors beating him up from all sides. Note the CT school cat logo on the instructors sweatshirts.
Another even more notorious example involves a soldier laying on the ground, face up, with his hands behind his neck so his entire body is exposed. Then an instructor comes to the student and strongly kicks him in the stomach. The student must then say his personal details as clearly and quickly as possible. If the soldier doesn't say his personal details fast or clear enough he is punished by another kick to his stomach, until he does it right.
Note: due the numerous injuries that occurred over the years during absorption training, currently it's done only in the CT Instructors course and not in the Takeover or Engagement units CT courses. However, the SF units are still practicing this kind of training in their own bases before attending the course.
All this training mentioned above takes place during the week, while in the end of the week there are one on one combats, done between personal from various courses. Since each unit usually participate in a course of its own, the instructors deliberately chose the two combat participants from two different courses so the soldiers won't be clouded by non relevant emotions effecting their aggressiveness, since they have to fight against fellow team mates. Moreover, since the two combat's participants are from two different courses hence from two different units, each soldier wants to prove his unit is the toughest one. so often the combats are much more brutal then they should be under normal conditions. The fact that the combats are held in a tournament style with both courses personal standing on either the sides of the fight cheering up the combatants, doesn't help to reduce the level of violence either.
With two combatants each from a different unit, the combat s which are held at the end of the weeks, are very brutal.
This Contact Combat training are what make the CT course the hard course that it is, to a point that the CT course is consider in many SF units to be the hardest part of their training regime, both mentally and physically wise. Therefore most units usually spend few weeks before the course in preparing fro it, mainly be enhance Contact Combat training.
Over the years allot of criticism, most of it justified, has been made against the CT school Contact Combat training. The fact that the instructors are not professional martial arts experts and are young hot blooded soldiers, as well as the lack of proper and sufficient protective body gear, lead to numerous training injuries over the years. These injuries include everything from broken noses and ribs, to rapture muscles and even head concussions. In most cases the injuries are fairly light and the wounded soldier can return back to training after few days rest, but in other more severe cases, the wounded soldier may need months of recovery down time, and some soldiers even permanently lost their combat capable status, due to the severity of the injury.
As a result, units with influence in the IDF have largely moderated the Contact Combat training in their CT course, and usually make the Contact Combat training a later stage with the unit's own and more careful instructors. For example, after loosing several soldiers due to Contact Combat injuries in the CT course, Sayeret MATKAL has prohibited massive Contact Combat training in its CT course, part from general lessons. This is by the way one of the reasons why Sayeret MATKAL personal has a reputation has rather spoiled in the IDF. Same goes for Sayeret Shaldag, which in more then one occasion, its soldiers refused to continue the course unless the Contact Combat brutally level will be lowered. Other units, with less power and influence the IDF, continue to take the abuse in the CT course. |
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08-03-2003 23:27
I was quessing that it would mean something like that.
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