11-03-2003 01:48									#31
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Iran has a pretty good airforce, IIRC. It's entirely possible that they could repulse an Israeli attack.

	11-03-2003 01:49									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Stuie I don't think the country that spent eight years fighting Iraq in the 80's would be too keen on helping out their nuclear program. That's just not going to happen.

Huhum....11 years

	11-03-2003 01:53									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Iran has a pretty good airforce, IIRC. It's entirely possible that they could repulse an Israeli attack.

Really? I always thought Israel had an airforce on par--or better--than the US. Honestly, I'm fairly certain Israel could reduce Damascus, Baghdad, Tehran, Riyadh, and Beirut to rubble within a week, if not for the homicide bomber orgy that would be sure to follow.

	11-03-2003 01:55									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel what is "Direct Connect"? the most anime series we have here is Dragonball-Z Shi: totally unfeasible, at the current climate.

Direct Connect is a file sharing program.

http://www.neo-modus.com/

Many animes aren't available outside Japan, so d/l:ing fan subtitled episodes is a must. Azumanga Daioh (ie. the one my avatar is from) is one of those. It's so quirky I doubt it'll ever see licensing.

	11-03-2003 01:57									#35
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Did I say Israel had a bad airforce?

	11-03-2003 01:59									#36
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Nuclear proliferation should be a UN problem. However, given the UN's performance on Iraq, if the International Atomic Energy Agency were to tell Iran, "You must allow inspections or else we will report you to the Security Council," I wonder just how afraid the Ayatollah's will be?

This is another one the US is going to have to handle. Thank you France.

	11-03-2003 01:59									#37
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Iraq...Nuclear technology/Anti American, Iran...Nuclear Technology/Anti-American, DPRK...Nuclear Technology/Anti-American.

Iraq invades neighbors...Iran supports Terrorism...DPRK guilty of weapons proliferation.

Axis of evil

And their are those who say Bush is an idiot for standing up to this?!?

Please understand this...It won't be war you are fighting against if you don't step up now.

	11-03-2003 02:00									#38
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Jaakko: I am a week away from ADSL

quote: Iran has a pretty good airforce, IIRC. It's entirely possible that they could repulse an Israeli attack.

depends on the scale of the airstike we're going to send there.

I think we've got one of them tankers.

quote: Really? I always thought Israel had an airforce on par--or better--than the US. Honestly, I'm fairly certain Israel could reduce Damascus, Baghdad, Tehran, Riyadh, and Beirut to rubble within a week, if not for the homicide bomber orgy that would be sure to follow.

Israel DOES have a very large fighter-bomber force, the 3rd in the world, actually, but we haven't got a single strategic bomber, or any other heavy bomber, for that matter. We could turn all those cities into rubble, but we'll have to use artillery.

	11-03-2003 02:06									#39
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Thanks for the clarification, Azazel.

	11-03-2003 02:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Jaakko: I am a week away from ADSL

	11-03-2003 02:07									#41
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Iraq...Nuclear technology/Anti American, Iran...Nuclear Technology/Anti-American, DPRK...Nuclear Technology/Anti-American. Iraq invades neighbors...Iran supports Terrorism...DPRK guilty of weapons proliferation. Axis of evil And their are those who say Bush is an idiot for standing up to this?!? Please understand this...It won't be war you are fighting against if you don't step up now.

USA... Nuclear technology/Anti non-American

USA invades countries all over the world... supports terrorism...guilty of weapons proliferation.

The Evil Empire.

And there are those who doubt it.

	11-03-2003 02:13									#42
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Israel's air force is far better then Iran's, and what's more I am willing to bet Israels pilots are far better. I am sure it would be able to take an Iranian nuclear reacter out.

	11-03-2003 02:39									#43
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The reason Iran wants nukes, I bet, is Israel and Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech. It is a self defence and a "don't mess with us" thing. I don't think Iran has any intention of using them, they want nukes as a deterant. I'm sick of Bush acting like the US is the only nation allowed to have nukes.

	11-03-2003 02:43									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Odin The reason Iran wants nukes, I bet, is Israel and Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech. It is a self defence and a "don't mess with us" thing. I don't think Iran has any intention of using them, they want nukes as a deterant. I'm sick of Bush acting like the US is the only nation allowed to have nukes.

Why should they use them when they can just give them to Hezbollah? Or is terrorism just "self-defense" that we shouldn't worry about?

	11-03-2003 02:47									#45
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Shi: yes, Israel would be able to do it, IF it all research was concentrated in a single site, as was with Osirak. The problem is, the nuclear industry in Iran is spread over numerous sites. around half a dosen IIRC. some of them are in the eastern desert. We'll have to send a hundred of aircarft or so to take them out, while crossing without agreement the airspace of two countries, at the very least. Jordan will never agree, it turns out that the main reason we didn't hit back in the gulf war was an agreement with King Hussein that we'll won't attack through their territory again, like we did in Osiraq. an act of war against Syria is out of the question, and would only be made as a last resolve.
then, there is Iraq through which we must go through, either that or Saudia, which never was in conflict with us. we ignore each other, and we would never attack them.

	11-03-2003 02:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld USA... Nuclear technology/Anti non-American USA invades countries all over the world... supports terrorism...guilty of weapons proliferation. The Evil Empire. And there are those who doubt it.

Well, if you hadn't said "supports terrorism" that would have been a snappy reply. Also, The Evil Empire was USSR.

Other than that, if Apples and Oranges were the same thing, I would agree with you.

	11-03-2003 02:55									#47
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Why should they use them when they can just give them to Hezbollah? Or is terrorism just "self-defense" that we shouldn't worry about?

I mean that Iran has been in a rush to defend themselves after the 'Axis of Evil" speach. Terrorism has nothing to do with it.

	11-03-2003 02:58									#48
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quote: I mean that Iran has been in a rush to defend themselves after the 'Axis of Evil" speach.

Because a nuclear power program can be created in such a magnitude in 2 years . Get real.

	11-03-2003 03:13									#49
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maybe they were subcontracting to North Pole elves.

	11-03-2003 03:26									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I mean that Iran has been in a rush to defend themselves after the 'Axis of Evil" speach. Terrorism has nothing to do with it.

I think that terrorism has everything to do with it. Including the Axis of Evil speech.

	11-03-2003 03:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Well, if you hadn't said "supports terrorism" that would have been a snappy reply.

Sorry, I meant to say "supports freedom fighters"

quote: Also, The Evil Empire was USSR.

Keyword: was

	11-03-2003 03:55									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Shi: yes, Israel would be able to do it, IF it all research was concentrated in a single site, as was with Osirak. The problem is, the nuclear industry in Iran is spread over numerous sites. around half a dosen IIRC. some of them are in the eastern desert. We'll have to send a hundred of aircarft or so to take them out, while crossing without agreement the airspace of two countries, at the very least. Jordan will never agree, it turns out that the main reason we didn't hit back in the gulf war was an agreement with King Hussein that we'll won't attack through their territory again, like we did in Osiraq. an act of war against Syria is out of the question, and would only be made as a last resolve. then, there is Iraq through which we must go through, either that or Saudia, which never was in conflict with us. we ignore each other, and we would never attack them.

Azazel: The thing is, I don't think Iran is a country whose leaders we can expect full rationality from. It's leaders are religious fundamentalists who believe they are on a mission from God. Iran is currently funding anti-Israel terrorists, and I think a nuclear Iran would represent the most serious threat to Israeli security by far. The IDF is strong enough to humiliate any Arab country which tries to stop them from using their air space, so I don't think diplomatic concerns over whose airspace will be violated should be too much of a concern. If it takes a somewhat lengthy bombing campaign to deny Iran nuclear capability, then that may be the thing to do.

	11-03-2003 03:57									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Sorry, I meant to say "supports freedom fighters"

No problem! Point taken. Eventually it comes down to perspective doesn't it?

	11-03-2003 04:01									#54
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quote: Azazel: The thing is, I don't think Iran is a country whose leaders we can expect full rationality from. It's leaders are religious fundamentalists who believe they are on a mission from God. Iran is currently funding anti-Israel terrorists, and I think a nuclear Iran would represent the most serious threat to Israeli security by far. The IDF is strong enough to humiliate any Arab country which tries to stop them from using their air space, so I don't think diplomatic concerns over whose airspace will be violated should be too much of a concern. If it takes a somewhat lengthy bombing campaign to deny Iran nuclear capability, then that may be the thing to do.

I guess we would do it, if we were a world power. unfortunately, we're not.

	11-03-2003 04:52									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I guess we would do it, if we were a world power. unfortunately, we're not.

Maybe not a world power, but you are hell of a regional power, and you have an airforce fit for a world power.

	11-03-2003 05:07									#56
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Not all of Iran falls within range of Israeli aircraft: Iran is a very big country. I do not think Israel would expend the forces needed to actually take out all of Iran's nuiclear facilities, which would need a significant assault: and might very well spark a huge atatck on Israel by hizbollah, and then, a war in Lebanon or a war with Syria.

So no, Israel can't styop iran from developing nukes;

as for why Iran, under any regime, might want nukes? Regional neighbors of Iran: Israel (nuclear), Iraq (WMD) Turkey (NATO ally of US), Pakistan (nuclear) Russia (nuclear) Afghanistan (a mess). If you lived in that sort of neighborhoodf, why wouldn't you want nuclear weapons?

And as for Iran's leaders: they are hardly irrational, if fanatical: just like our leadership in the US....

	11-03-2003 05:18									#57
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Iran also has a strategic alliance with India. India can use Iranian bases in the event of a war with Pakistan, and Iran can get access to Indian military technology. Iran can also sell fossil fuels to India.

Hardly the actions of such an 'irrational' leadership.

	11-03-2003 05:18									#58
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quote: The thing is, I don't think Iran is a country whose leaders we can expect full rationality from. It's leaders are religious fundamentalists who believe they are on a mission from God.

Wow, I'd sure hate to live in a country like that.

	11-03-2003 05:21									#59
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quote: Not all of Iran falls within range of Israeli aircraft: Iran is a very big country. I do not think Israel would expend the forces needed to actually take out all of Iran's nuiclear facilities, which would need a significant assault: and might very well spark a huge atatck on Israel by hizbollah, and then, a war in Lebanon or a war with Syria.

But I thought that the hizbollah are freedom fighters for Lebanon....

quote: as for why Iran, under any regime, might want nukes? Regional neighbors of Iran: Israel (nuclear), Iraq (WMD) Turkey (NATO ally of US), Pakistan (nuclear) Russia (nuclear) Afghanistan (a mess). If you lived in that sort of neighborhoodf, why wouldn't you want nuclear weapons?

That's wierd. which of this countries has the desire to attack Iran?
Just having nukes doesn't mean that you're a danger. otherwise, disarm the US, Russia, France, UK, and China. the only threat is Iraq, and they're balanced against it very well.

	11-03-2003 05:26									#60
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Well, right now, Israel and the US look like states willing to attack Iran under certain circumstances. Why does the US need nukes? Nukes are an extra trump card, and no, you are never sure who might want nukes and who might not. If your neighbors have nukes, why shouldn't you? Iran's relations with Pakistan are not super, as I said, afghanistan is a black hole..who knows what might come of it. Iran as a state has various reasons to have nukes to try to solidify its position.

If the Shah was in power still, Iran would still be working towards nukes, but doing it with US built facilities.