29-05-2003 19:42									#31
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Yeah, Vel, its probably better to conquer the French...

I ditched my Poland game as I was being buried with constant Swedish/Ottoman, Russian, Austria/Bohemia/Hungary, and rebel wars. Basically, they would all dogpile on me. It was like that scene from the movie 'Airplane!' when everyone was lining up to slap around that female passenger.

I'm also playing England at the moment. (GC- about 1520 so far). I didn't tackle the French to that extent. I just nibbled off a couple of their provinces. I concentrated on consolidating the island (took out Scotland early and just diploannexed Ireland) Ireland was dragging me into some unwanted wars, though because I supported them, I did manage to get the Meckleburg CoT out of the deal.

Most of the time, I'm kissing up to the continent so I can concentrate on colonization. I built a lot of ships over the course of the first 80 years, and as soon as I got an explorer, I beelined to the Americas. Currently I'm TPing/colonizing everything I see...

I love this game

	30-05-2003 19:44									#32
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Agreed, bud! EU2 ROCKS!

I used to beeline for smacking Scotland and Ireland around too! But, then I discovered a juicy tidbit that made me strike off in a new (more continental) direction.

England starts the game with French culture, and if you capture....ugh...I can't remember, but it's a couple of those Frenchie provs that border stuff you start with, you keep French culture for the rest of the game! (which essentially means that when you capture French provinces, you get the full amount of the tax value for them). Eventually, as England, you get Gaelic culture too, but until you do, you're only getting half value for those scotish and irish provs, so I finally resigned myself to letting them live (tho I usually help scotland take ireland out, cos it's easier to handle one or the other, as opposed to both).

In-game, France is far and away the most resilient, godawful nation there is (or, at least in the vast majority of them), so my goals as England are to catch France while she's weak and devour her....effectively becoming both France and England to secure the continental hegemony, and then using England's bevy of explorers to lock down the colonial aspect of the game. Far and away my favorite major to play!

(and as minors go, play Lorraine! French and German culture is...amazing! True, it's tricky to get started, but once you do, you're a powerhouse!)

-=Vel=-

	31-05-2003 00:25									#33
	Re: Rule Britannia! Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by ravagon Not only did this give a substantial boost to our future financial position but many other nearby British provinces automatically redirected their trade to the new centre. Several hundreds of ducats per year, exclusively and almost instantaneously. Not since we had been the first to dominate the new COT in Barbados (rapidly discovered by both Spain and Genoa unfortunately ) had we been in such a position. With high spirits the cash abundance was sent home to the king as we again turned our gaze to the mother country and ... ... Europe??!! Aaarrghhh. Who took Western Europe and replaced it with Frenchland? Is this a joke? Maybe they were all just flying French flags for April fools day and got their calendars stuck on April the 1st? [Historians note: This tradition had its beginnings several years earlier when a certain family of 3-fingered, yellow pagan weirdos burned another family of 3-fingered, yellow christian wackos at the stake as a punishment for mocking the pagans new year, which just happened to fall on April the 1st. ] The French scribbling "Vive la France" is one thing but when much of Germany and Austria is doing it too it becomes a little ... worrying. Lorraine - gone, Bavaria - gone, the Palatinat - gone, Savoy - down to a single province. Things just weren't looking good. We weren't too inclined to challenge them on the battlefield either as their standing army had grown to a whopping 250k+ ... even if they were mostly putting down dissent and scrapping with (the very beginnings of an begin to dawn) ... the Austrians. At the end of a rather narrow (and threatened) land corridor that had already been cut off in one place by revolters and in another by the nation of Baden - a French vassal which doesn't appear to grant French passage. (thus was born the seed of a cunning and devious plan ). With nothing to lose, and plenty of cash in the bank, we began lending out to those most in need. It just happened, purely circumstantially of course, that first on the list of recipients was Austria. Fancy that. Next came ... hmm ... a country I'd never heard of before named, ... Modena? Well I never! It just happened that they too were, coincidentally, at war with France, as Austrian allies. Gelre? We can lend them some money I'm sure. Oh? Well would you look at that?! They aren't Austrian allies but they ALSO seem to be at war with France? Well, not wanting to appear to favour any particular side, each of these nations was offered a loan of 500-1000D, all at the quite unreasonable rate of 1%. Hello? They all suddenly seem to be recruiting? Oh dear. That might not bode well for the French war effort. Not to mention the rising revolt risk and the increasing number of French provinces under siege. [Hmmm. There seems to be a maximum no. of smilies you can use in a post. Oh well. +1 ]

Now wait a minute!!! Britain builds up financial strength with overseas colonies - fears France dominating continent - doesnt want to engage France head on - so finances Austria and other French enemies on continent.

Did you, like figure this strategy out on your own???
Or just pick up any history of the period

If you did stumble into it, thats a most impressive thing about this game - to make the best strategy turn out to be the actual historical strategy. makes me want to get this game

	31-05-2003 19:17									#34
	Re: Re: Rule Britannia! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark ...thats a most impressive thing about this game - to make the best strategy turn out to be the actual historical strategy. makes me want to get this game

Run to the store then...The funny thing is, since I started playing, I have little desire to play any of the TBS games anymore.

I got the game for Christmas at about the time civ3 came out. I was asking my wife to get me civ3 for Christmas - about a week before Christmas, I did an about face and said 'Get me EU2 instead' She ended up getting me both.

civ3 is off my hard drive after a couple of months of disinterested play...

	31-05-2003 19:41									#35
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I know what you mean, Hex....I think that the way RTS was implemented in EU2 makes it.....better, in some strange way I can't quite put my finger on. Essentially, one could say that it's still "tbs" but you just don't have to hit the "end turn" button. (given the wide variance of speeds, and the pause feature, I mean). VERY nicely done....makes me wonder if perhaps we ought not move toward a similar scheme in CB.... (nahhh, don't want to give DK a heart attack! *G*)

-=Vel=-

	01-06-2003 05:07									#36
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So, how does it compare to CTP2 and EU1? I own, but have never played EU1. I picked it up in the bargain bin about a month ago, but have just not found the time to take a look at it.

Vel and Hex, I know that both of you have CTP2 flowing through your bloodstreams (at least a little ), so what are the pluses and minuses when comparing the two?

	01-06-2003 05:58									#37
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I'm a HUGE fan of history, and while CTP is a fantastic 4x tbs, there's not a lot of "actual" history to be gleaned from it.

Not so with EU....it teaches AS it entertains. You will come away from a game of EU having had a heck of a lot of fun, AND with a greater understanding of how the world was, and the forces at work during those days that gave us what we are today (EU2 even moreso, and I'd HIGHLY recommend getting it!)

Put yourself in the driver's seat as say....France or England, and see how the choices you make in the hot seat are similar or differ from the historic norm. It's....endlessly fascinating!

-=Vel=-

	01-06-2003 06:46									#38
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Vel, you know what happened last time I tried introducing the EU model to DK...

For me, like Vel, its the atmosphere more than anything else...If you like history, get this game!!!

EU2 really gives you the feeling of history as it occured. Granted, you are not completely imitating history, but the tone reflects what happened in the world from 1400-1800. And unlike CTP2, who you play is very important, because each nation has different settings, and they follow the trends that their actual counterparts did.

Imagine starting a game and having 100+ nations all competing against one another. Imagine seeing Austria start out as a one province territory and then blossom as it did in history. See Poland take its rightful place in the world as a huge power in the 1500s - something that I never learned in history class but picked up when reading Henryck Sienkiewicz's novels (He's the Polish Tolstoy - Fire in the Steppes, The Deluge, With Fire and Sword). Imagine picking up a game and seeing that type of stuff come to life.

Gameplay is incredibly deep, and more importantly, it is very subtle in nature. I'm just now starting to get a grasp on some of the subtleties of the game, and for everything I do manage to figure out, there are several more that crop up, but these merely whet my appetite to to figure them out. Even though I may not understand some of the stuff going on, I can still play the game and enjoy it.

For instance, its hard to merely go out and warmongor - my last Polish game was a disaster because I did so, and I paid for it. So you have to walk a fine line of diplomacy, economic investment, and social settings. EVERY decision has a consequence.

I know that all the civ-style games can make the same sort of claim, but in EU2, it feels much richer.

If the game is too easy, play a backwater 1 province nation with little economic prospect and try to survive in the big, bad world. (as Vel likes to do with the Native Americans)

It is RTS, but the engine acts more like a TBS game. In many ways, the RTS aspect is a lot like the Sierra CityBuilder games rather than something like AOE. (And the Sierra games are some of my favorites.)

	02-06-2003 05:38									#39
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Vel and Hex,

Thanks guys , Though available playing time is a premium for me these days . I think that you have me sold on picking up EU2. I was contemplating getting either it or Hearts of Iron. I am a huge fan of history, as well, and it seems as though these games may just have a worthwhile educational aspect (or that's what I'll tell my fiance anyway ).

I am, however, particularly fascinated by the WW1 and 2 eras (ie HoI). so maybe I'll have to pick up both of them .

	02-06-2003 17:16									#40
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Yeah...what really makes EU2 buzz is the fact that there are delicious checks and balances to everything you do.

Conquer too much, too quickly, and all of Europe will hate you for disrupting the balance of power, and you'll quickly find yourself at the center of a "BadBoy" war.

Focus too much on military techs and you'll fall hopelessly behind economically.

Focus too heavily on economics, and you'll get overrun by enemy troops wielding MUCH better weapons.

Trade starts off relatively unimportant, but by end-game, becomes your a#1 money maker, and controlling centers of trade is of vast long-term strategic importance.

Cavalry starts off as the "Cadillac unit" on the map, and decreases in its importance as it did historically.

Tons of details like that, all working in tandem.....it's the fine wine of gaming....

-=Vel=-

	03-06-2003 03:47									#41
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This sounds like a fun game. Is there any website which gives an indepth look at the rules, screenshots, features, etc?

	03-06-2003 17:57									#42
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The official forums would be a good place to look. Everybody is interested in helping if you are wondering on something, so just ask! There are lots of info in the FAQ section too, and the AAR section is alive and kicking.

	03-06-2003 23:17									#43
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thANKS For the link

	04-06-2003 00:31									#44
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No problem. I hope you will like what you see like so many of us before you!

	04-06-2003 07:18									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Yeah...what really makes EU2 buzz is the fact that there are delicious checks and balances to everything you do. Conquer too much, too quickly, and all of Europe will hate you for disrupting the balance of power, and you'll quickly find yourself at the center of a "BadBoy" war. Focus too much on military techs and you'll fall hopelessly behind economically. Focus too heavily on economics, and you'll get overrun by enemy troops wielding MUCH better weapons. Trade starts off relatively unimportant, but by end-game, becomes your a#1 money maker, and controlling centers of trade is of vast long-term strategic importance. Cavalry starts off as the "Cadillac unit" on the map, and decreases in its importance as it did historically. Tons of details like that, all working in tandem.....it's the fine wine of gaming.... -=Vel=-

Well said.

	04-06-2003 07:52									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai I hope you will like what you see like so many of us before you!

I just started my first game of EU1... Loving it

I may be mistaken, but upon first inspection, I'm thinking that this may be one of the last of the "non-dumbed down" games... I can't wait to get into it deeper

	04-06-2003 22:55									#47
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I got EU2 yesteerday and did a few of the tutorials. I have some questions.

When you have a royal marriage, does the other country always get folded into yours, or can you sometimes get taken over by them.

Why does a budget surplus cause inflation? A budget deficit and loans would create inflation.

Similarly, why is it when you have lots of gold mines, you get inflation? If you have more gold, the value of it drops, and you will have deflation.

	04-06-2003 22:57									#48
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Also, can you continue playing after 1820?

	04-06-2003 23:14									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia I got EU2 yesteerday and did a few of the tutorials. I have some questions. When you have a royal marriage, does the other country always get folded into yours, or can you sometimes get taken over by them.

Always them never you. But IIRC you do not inherit nations in EU2 only inEU1?

quote: Why does a budget surplus cause inflation? A budget deficit and loans would create inflation.

Sorry can not remember the reason at the moment.

quote: Similarly, why is it when you have lots of gold mines, you get inflation? If you have more gold, the value of it drops, and you will have deflation.

During this time money=gold, if there are more gold the price of gold will drop and thus more gold (=money) will be neede to buy anything.

No you can not play on after 1820.

	04-06-2003 23:42									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You cannot inherit countries in EU2, but you can vassalize and after some time diplo-annex them. After you have vassalized them, you can normaly annex them after 10 years(you need to fullfill some requirements thoug). However, you should wait at least 15 years, some even suggest 30, to be sure they accept.

The budget surplus=inflation is something that is decided to work like that by the designers, I guess on intent. I'd guess the reason is gamebalancing, but I'm not sure. If you ask at the forums(or even better: search for the many threads that have been made on that topic), you'll surely get an answer.

And Janbalk is both right and wrong. You can play further, but then you need a mod that is available in the modification forum. You can find that tool and several more that can be useful here.

	05-06-2003 01:36									#51
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Thanks

I started my first grand campaing as Baden. Its along the Rhine river. I had a hard time making money because my 4 merchants where only brining in 13 gold, and it didnt seem like my taxes were giving me anytihng , nor was my natural resources, wine. I built a coupla of armies, invaded Maintz. The first time they sued for peace and i got 150 gold. The second time I finished the siege and took it. Then Hesse and Palatine declared war on me, and that was that. I;'m going to start over of course, but how can I make money off of natural resources?

	05-06-2003 01:44									#52
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Also, can someone please explaon to me how to get a CB against another country?

	05-06-2003 03:41									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Also, can you continue playing after 1820?

There is an "unlimited time" Mod. Ask in the Official EU2 forums - I dont have the links to hand at the moment.

	05-06-2003 07:19									#54
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EUnomics (or at least, that's my term for it)

Essentially the design of the economic model is this:

The country you run is not the center of the economy...."you" are, and as gold (or in this case, ducats) is the driving force behind the game, pretty much anything that gives "you" more coin will also spike your inflation. Thus (depending on what patch you're playing), raising war taxes (mo' money if you do it in August or later), taking loans, and minting coins (adding money directly to the treasury), all increase "your" gold, so....it carries inflation with it.

Gold mines operate on much the same principle....in general terms, if you have 25% or more of your monthly budget coming from gold, you get inflation.

Your natural resources make money for you in two ways. First, each resource has a production and trade value range associated with it, and these tend to change over time (slaves, for example....slave provinces you may control start off with a very low trade value associated with them, cos in 1419/1492 the demand wasn't all that high, but by late-game, they're very much in demand, and you'll see a spike in the value of your provinces. Furs start medium, spike in the mid game, and then begin to decline in value....stuff like that.

Also, you can build one (and only one) "manufactory" in each province. If you match the appropriate manufactory with the appropriate province good, you get more of a benefit (ie - in a wine province, if you build a brewery, you gain, effectively 1d per month), but there are other benefits to building them as well. Each manufactory you build (on a province containing ANY resource) will give you a +5 bonus to research per month in a particular category (breweries = trade research, weapons = land tech, naval supplies = naval tech, goods = infrastructure tech). Manufactories built in the "wrong" type of goods province provide you with a 0.5 ducat per month boost (half of what you get for building them in the "right" provinces), and Breweries/Goods manufactories increase your trade/infrastructure effieciency by +5(?)% each, which makes them HUGELY important! Fine arts academies add +5 per month to your stability, so they're nothing to sneeze at either, but only provide the +1d per month if built in your capitol.

-=Vel=-

	05-06-2003 15:39									#55
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Lawrence, what patch are you on? That is very important, because the newer patches has changed a lot of things.

	05-06-2003 22:03									#56
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Hey thanks a lot you guys. I'm not sure about which patch Im on, but on the top right corner it says v. 2.0 i think

	05-06-2003 22:06									#57
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I took my first province yesterday. I was Koln (cologne) and I noticed that Luxemburg was very weak, so I built some armies and invaded. Two years later, after beating back coutner attacks and a succesful siege, I captured it.Unfortunatly, I was in so much debt, that I was loosing money each turn, so I quit the game.

	05-06-2003 22:31									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Forgot to answer the CB part, here are some things to do regarding gaining CB's:

1) You can issue a warning to the nation in question. Warnings are good for five years. If they attack anybody in that time, you get a CB.

2) If they control a Center of Trade, flood it with merchants. They'll lose money and may hit you with an embargo (if they have at least TradeTech4). Free CB, works GREAT on the folk of the Iberian peninsula.

3) If you have national shields on their territory, you automatically get a CB (ie, France has a shield on the English territory of Calais....as long as England controls Calais, France gets a free CB on them).

4) Random events sometimes give you CB's

5) Guarantee the independence of another country. Anybody attacks them, free cb on the attacker! (good for five years, per "Warning" above).

6) Historical events may change your culture, add or remove territorial "shields" which will change your CB equation.

7) If someone you're in an alliance with dishonors the alliance, you get a cb...this is perhaps the easies way to GET a CB....spend money to improve your relations with the leader of whatever alliance your target country is in, and use a valid CB you have elsewhere to declare a war (preferably with a country you can't get to, and who can't get to you). Call your allies. Your real target, currently an alliance member who hates you, will dishonor the alliance...presto. CB for a year....

-=Vel=-

	05-06-2003 22:32									#59
	Remove this text

Oh...and I forgot a rather big one...do NOT annex the Papal States....doing so gives every Catholic Nation on the map a free (permanant) CB with you.....which is why it's good, if you're going to unify Italy to do it WITH the Papal States....

-=Vel=-

	05-06-2003 22:42									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Hey thanks a lot you guys. I'm not sure about which patch Im on, but on the top right corner it says v. 2.0 i think

I very much doubt it, as the latest version is 1.07[ b ]. You probably have 1.02, and that is an oooold version. I suggest that you update. The official version is now 1.07, and it has completely changed the game. It's much harder, so if you don't think the game's too easy, you might want to consider 1.05, witch is the latest and best of the "old style" patches. However, 1.07 has some bugs and stuff fixed, so it's your choice.

PS! 1.07b is a beta patch that Paradox has released to get help from people who wants to be "beta testers" for them. Lots of new things, but considerably harder.