22-03-2003 02:26									#61
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Agathon, do you know why the Chinese embassy was bombed in Serbia?

	22-03-2003 02:29									#62
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quote: I actually believed them in Gulf War 1 and that turned out to be lies

a) large civilian casualties in GW1?
b) the number of smart weapons that were used in GW1 was very low, while the majority of the weapons of GW2 are guided.

	22-03-2003 02:30									#63
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Smart weapons are better now?

Quite a bit better. Where have you been?

	22-03-2003 02:38									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Smart weapons are better now? Targeted strikes will minimize collateral damage? I actually believed them in Gulf War 1 and that turned out to be lies, so why should I believe them now. Given that not long ago the US put a bomb through the Chinese embassy we should take their words with a pinch of salt.

Well be fair, we hit what we were aiming for; it just wasn’t what we thought it was.

	22-03-2003 02:39									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin A city is not being turned to rubble. Please watch the news and learn what is happening.

That comment reminds of a long time ago when MWHC was slagging off the Russians about the way they levelled the city of Grozny and said the USA would never do that, although they damn well could if they pleased.

Guess the USA just has a better PR firm eh?

So what happens when they run out of palaces to bomb?

	22-03-2003 02:43									#66
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Smart weapons are only as smart as the leaders in control of them.

	22-03-2003 03:16									#67
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This bomberdment is im[pressive only when compared to other televised bombardments of the past: I think the Russian leveling of Grozny would have looked much more frightening on TV, specially since you would see the flashes of arty from the city. And those pics form the bombers as cities were bombed in WW2: that's frightening to watch. I am sure for the people of Baghdad, any amount of bombing is scary enough.

But 30 odd medium size building taken out in a city of 4-5 million people is not "utter devstation". Also, these buildings are "typical" targets, so I am sure they were relatively empty. If the Iraqis were smart, they would have placed all incriminating files into those building, so that the USAF did all their shredding job for them for free.

(hint, hint, medium sized..so that no one starts making WTC comparisons..)

	22-03-2003 03:19									#68
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quote: If the Iraqis were smart, they would have placed all incriminating files into those building, so that the USAF did all their shredding job for them for free.

I think you've read Jacques Chirac's mind with that post...

	22-03-2003 03:23									#69
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Drake..has your imagination run so dry? or perhaps you have this hidden crush on Chirac, and act like a little boy who likes a girl and shows it by hitting her?

Basically, you are approching "Paitkis with the Turks", "Fez and Gays" level....

	22-03-2003 03:23									#70
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quote: I think you've read Jacques Chirac's mind with that post...

And Ronny Reagan's... although I'm sure the current Bush admin has taken care of most of it.

	22-03-2003 03:29									#71
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quote: Basically, you are approching "Paitkis with the Turks", "Fez and Gays" level....

I'm not secretly French, so I don't really fit in with those two...

	22-03-2003 03:31									#72
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Drake, its time to start being honest with yourself...

You know, like Congressman Ney, who was the one to undertake that whole "freedom fries" crap (where does someone get a last name like Ney? isn't it FRENCH???).

Perhaps one day, lie Fez, you will come to understand the truth about your feelings....

{threadjack about Drakes secret francophilia..closed}

	22-03-2003 03:33									#73
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Drake just reminded me of an interesting point. I'm just curious... but if you classify yourself as somebody who does not like France because of its opposition to the war and such, do you equally dislike countries like Saudi Arabia and Syria, whose regimes are equally as oppressive, have more connections, and supply more funds to terror? And if you go so far as to demand a boycott on French goods, do you equally support a boycott against oil companies that buy oil from Gulf States that funnel money to terrorists?

	22-03-2003 03:37									#74
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I don't understand why there's so much U.S. anti-French feeling by some apolytoners

THAT COUNTRY WHICH YOU SO VIRULENTLY FLAME ABOUT OPENLY AIDED YOUR COUNTRY DURING ITS INDEPENDENCE AND IS THE ONLY MAJOR EUROPEAN POWER WHICH THE US HAS NOT BEEN AT WAR WITH.

Now get over it and buy some goddam FRENCH fries and gulp 'em down with a bottle of Perrier.

	22-03-2003 03:39									#75
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whoa there... settle down, the mods are watching

I'll be drinking French wine tonight.

	22-03-2003 03:39									#76
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quote: but if you classify yourself as somebody who does not like France because of its opposition to the war and such

I disliked the French long before war in Iraq was being contemplated. Current events have only strenghthened my already existing views on that proud people...

	22-03-2003 03:40									#77
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May I ask why?

What are your answers to some of my other questions?

	22-03-2003 03:42									#78
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BTW, some of those explosions looked like free fall bombs from heavy bombers, the explosions "blinked" too much for them to have been single bombs. Other explosions do seem to be smart bomb direct hits so I guess they're using a combination of B-2/B-52s and F-117s.

So much for "surgical" strikes...

BTW, air defenses really looked pathetic, plus, if they did do B-52 strikes that means there's not much opposition.

	22-03-2003 03:43									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: but if you classify yourself as somebody who does not like France because of its opposition to the war and such I disliked the French long before war in Iraq was being contemplated. Current events have only strenghthened my already existing views on that proud people...

Fly in your soup last time in Paris?

Please Drake, I'd like to hear why!

	22-03-2003 03:43									#80
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I wonder if those Iraqi AAA sites could even hit B-52's flying at high altitude?

	22-03-2003 03:44									#81
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quote: May I ask why?

You have to ask why I dislike the French? Pick up a history book and you'll find all kinds of reasons...

As for Saudi Arabia and Syria, I don't like them either and would be fine with a boycott on their products. Hopefully a democratic Iraq will provide us with a real friend in the Middle East so that we can dump the Saudis...

	22-03-2003 03:47									#82
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Modern AAA is mainly light, maybe up to 50-55 mm, so no, it does not reach as high as B-52's. thats what SAM's are for. Also, any strikes from B-52's against Baghdad would be made using stand-of weapons like air-launched cruise missiles. This isn't Hanoi in 1972.

	22-03-2003 03:50									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Hopefully a democratic Iraq will provide us with a real friend in the Middle East so that we can dump the Saudis...

Talk about the eternal optimist...



Somehow, I just don't think that's going to happen...

	22-03-2003 03:52									#84
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quote: Somehow, I just don't think that's going to happen...

It better happen or this whole endeavor has just been a waste of time. You can't beat terrorism if you don't remake the poltical landscape of the region...

	22-03-2003 03:54									#85
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quote: It better happen or this whole endeavor has just been a waste of time. You can't beat terrorism if you don't remake the poltical landscape of the region...

BINGO

Give that man the prize, for just hitting it on the bullseye!

	22-03-2003 03:58									#86
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Did GePap just agree with me? Am I dreaming? I must be dreaming...

	22-03-2003 04:01									#87
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Modern AAA is mainly light, maybe up to 50-55 mm, so no, it does not reach as high as B-52's. thats what SAM's are for. Also, any strikes from B-52's against Baghdad would be made using stand-of weapons like air-launched cruise missiles. This isn't Hanoi in 1972.

Then it was B-2s. Some of those explosions did not look like precision bombs (think of ww2 bombardments looking from below and thats what I think they look like)

	22-03-2003 04:03									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Talk about the eternal optimist... Somehow, I just don't think that's going to happen...

I'm against any war being waged in the Middle East but on a lighter note, wouldn't it be more in the US's interests if it were Saudia Arabia being bombed?

1) More oil
2) Another despotic regime ousted
3) More oil
4) Got a border with iraq anyway
5) More oil
6) More free airbases
7) More oil

	22-03-2003 04:07									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Did GePap just agree with me? Am I dreaming? I must be dreaming...

Well then, that must explain some of your posts, since I am sure sleep typists aren't in complete control of their faculties.

Master Zen:

The US would not drop dumb bombs into Baghdad, for the danger of it going of course and hitting some enarby apartment building is simply too high. Yes, B-2 could probably safely fly over the city without much fear about SAM's, but the bombs it drops are porbably GPS guided.

	22-03-2003 04:10									#90
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quote: Well then, that must explain some of your posts, since I am sure sleep typists aren't in complete control of their faculties.

That's more like it...