23-03-2003 18:45									#31
	Re: you talking to me? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf you talking to me?

No, sorry. It was reply to August Borms.

	23-03-2003 19:52									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was only commenting on the number of civilian casualties, not the pre-emptive strike.

	23-03-2003 19:59									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Serb When Russia did preemptive attack?

Ask the evil Finns

	23-03-2003 20:28									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident And don't give me crap about Rwanda and Korea. I already answered that. We'd get our asses kicked in those nations. We only help where it is possible.

Rwanda kicking the US' ass?

Yes, I've heard they've made great strides in stone-throwing technolgy lately and they've recently produced a machette that has the US trembling in fear!

	23-03-2003 21:51									#35
	Support Apolyton

Actually, I have little doubt that a Rwanda campaign will be a LOT more bloody than the campaign in Iraq. besides, it's a tad too late to send troops into Rwanda. there are better places to send troops, if we don't consider the consequences of war.

	23-03-2003 23:05									#36
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

the U.S. has no support bases in Afric. Iraq is very easy because of countries like Turkey allowing overflights and Kuwait being so generous to allow a staging area.

If we went into Africa I would expect things like what happened in Somalia on a regular basis.

	23-03-2003 23:10									#37
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Sigh.....

Dis used to be half-way interesting. Until he began his latest series of trolls.

	23-03-2003 23:47									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

So you are saying we can succeed in Africa? Did you see what happened in Somalia? We got our asses kicked.

without land bases we rely on amphib ready groups and aircraft carriers. But they couldn't divert a carrier down there for some reason. They should have. But I doubt a carrier would have been as usefual in Rwanda, which I believe is in the center of the continent- I may be wrong about that .

Unless we got permission from African nations to stage our troops there, we would be in a world of hurt. Amphib ready groups have severe limitations.

and aren't you trolling more than I am?

	24-03-2003 00:00									#39
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Dissident the U.S. has no support bases in Afric.

And why is that? I thought you people are so concerned about democracy and human rights. Why then have you almost completely ignored Africa?

quote: Iraq is very easy because of countries like Turkey allowing overflights and Kuwait being so generous to allow a staging area.

And you wonder why we see you as the international bully! You won't stand up to a country that might bloody your nose a bit, but you don't hestitate to pick a fight with one that's down and out.

quote: If we went into Africa I would expect things like what happened in Somalia on a regular basis.

So much for having the courage to live up to your principles! Did the US try any other approach there after you got a little bruised up, or did you just drop the whole issue like a hot potatoe? Why have we never heard of any diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation after that? Yet you expect us to trust you in Iraq! You've already betrayed the Iraqi people once, why should we believe it won't happen again?

	24-03-2003 00:07									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Serb Just answer two questions. Did you saw CNN live with Baghdad on fire? Do you believe that no civlians and no children were harmed? If so, then you're hopeless.

Do you believe Iraqi civilians died under Saddam?

	24-03-2003 00:34									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Don't you think that famous American historian is correct and that Bush and his administration lack a sense of history?

I think it's important to remember that the administration participated in a lot of that history. Certainly everything from the early 70s to the present.

Also, the US is an ideological construct. Ideology is our lifeblood. Why should we expect our foreign policy to be anything but a reflection of that fact?

Last edited by DanS on 24-03-2003 at 00:45

	24-03-2003 00:57									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To compare how many people are killed by American bombs and how many people we would save by taking out Saddam is silly. The number of people killed by American bombs is a fact, the number of people saved from Saddam is speculation. You don't know how many people Saddam would eventually kill.

And the doctrine of premptive war is easily the most dangerous doctrine since Hitler's idea of Aryan superiority. What this adminstration's foreign policy has managed to do is create a doctrine where the smallest threat from another country is grounds for war. A number of conflicts around the world could quickly escalate because of this new doctrine, possibly the most dangerous being Pakistan and India.

	24-03-2003 01:01									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

those nations do not threaten us. they threaten each other though.

	24-03-2003 01:02									#44
	Support Apolyton

quote: And the doctrine of premptive war is easily the most dangerous doctrine since Hitler's idea of Aryan superiority.

I don't mean to interrupt your unwarranted moral indignation, but I think that Mutually Assured Destruction doctrine was far more dangerous than anything the Bush administration has thought up. Carry on...

	24-03-2003 01:08									#45
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

actually there are those that argue containment and MAD are effective and pre-emptive strikes are not. And I'm inclined to believe them. But I'm hoping in this case a pre-emtive strike actually works. But I do not support that policy for obvious reasons.

	24-03-2003 01:24									#46
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Dissident those nations do not threaten us. they threaten each other though.

So what does that matter? Talk about a callous attitude! Why should Americans care about them, they're all just brown people after all. Millions will die if that situation boils over, and George Bush has just added another justification for that occuring.

	24-03-2003 01:27									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Preventive war is important and should not be overly dangerous if clear criteria are set out. We are feeling our way on this policy right now.

	24-03-2003 01:39									#48
	Support Apolyton

why do the leftist always seem to accuse people of being racist in their arguments?

Supposedly this war dealt with threats agains the U.S. that is why my post pointed out threats against the U.S.

For the record I believe Iraq poses little threat to the U.S. So don't go lecturing me on how defenseless they are. I already know that.

	24-03-2003 02:20									#49
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And I seriously doubt we will ever get into a serious war for another 15 years at least.

Well, you are not in one now.

	24-03-2003 02:40									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

that's why I said another

edit: whoops- I meant to say another