25-03-2003 07:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV No oil = no invasion. It is not politically correct to invade a country just to secure a safe supply of tobacco.

That depends on how long the pc philosopher has been out of smokes!

	25-03-2003 07:43									#32
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Or copper either!

	25-03-2003 07:44									#33
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quote: No blood for oil, meat, nitrates, coffee, chocolate, fruit, or tobacco!!!

Damn straight, especially the nitrates!

	25-03-2003 07:49									#34
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While we're at it, how about invading West Papua?

http://www.newint.org/issue344/madness.htm

	25-03-2003 08:01									#35
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West Papua seems to be a very lovely place too
While we're accounting for horrors worldwide, does anybody know if the madness in Liberia continues ?

	25-03-2003 08:07									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Why don't you Euros take care of it...

The way the Yanquis took care of Liberia?

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k1/africa/liberia.html

	25-03-2003 08:20									#37
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Excluding Liberia, Eurocoms should be directly responsible for taking care of Africa.

	25-03-2003 08:22									#38
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quote: Excluding Liberia, Eurocoms should be directly responsible for taking care of Africa.

That's being pretty cruel to Africans, isn't it?

	25-03-2003 08:23									#39
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Ted Striker :
In case of Africa, you don't talk about Eurocoms, but Euroimperialists.

	25-03-2003 08:25									#40
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[robot voice]

I am not familiar with your terminology.

Ready.

[/robot voice]

	25-03-2003 09:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf I know it's not PC to say so, but history has shown pretty well that Zimbabwe was a happier place when it was Rhodesia.

Only if you were a white Boer or Briton. This crisis has been directly precipitated by the United Kingdom's failure to honor its obligations under the Lancaster House agreement.

The UK agreed to fund a land redistribution program to help return some of the land stolen by whites to the black majority. They have failed to do so. The Zimbabwean government has now proceeded with land reform without British cooperation. White resistance has resulted in a program that is less orderly than desired. The government has certainly committed abuses, but the land issue remains Zimbabwe's central problem.

Do you really think, Gangerolf, that the blacks were happier having their property stolen and their women raped by whites under Rhodesia? ...When whites could kill, maim, or humiliate blacks at will, without punishment?

Only a white vuck off like yourself would say that.

	25-03-2003 09:15									#42
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Rhodesia is one of the worst of the worst.

No blood for diamonds. (Not joking - literally).

	25-03-2003 10:28									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Rhodesia is one of the worst of the worst. No blood for diamonds. (Not joking - literally).

No, Zimbabwe isn't. For the luxury equipped basket case model state one has to travel to Angola, Zaire, Liberia, Rwanda or Burundi. Or formerly, Uganda. Or southern Sudan. There are far worse places than Zimbabwe, but that being said it doesn't mitigate Mugabe's dictatorship, or stifling of political dissent.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/brie...babwe0600.shtml

Even so, the Amnesty report reads just like the ones I used to read on Central and South American dictatorships- Somoza, Duvalier, Trujillo, Pinochet. How come they could flourish next to the land of lady liberty?

	25-03-2003 10:32									#44
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I'm talking back when it was Rhodesia, wannabe Eurocom.

Africa as a whole is much worse off than South America, and just coincidentally wholly and DIRECTLY ruled by Eurocoms for most of this century.

Oh, and by the way, the Spanish footprint has a bigger impact in South America than the American one.

Last edited by Ted Striker on 25-03-2003 at 10:41

	25-03-2003 10:41									#45
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I told you there are no Eurocoms in Africa, only Euroimperialists

	25-03-2003 10:44									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I'm talking back when it was Rhodesia, wannabe Eurocom. Africa as a whole is much worse off than South America, and just coincidentally wholly and DIRECTLY ruled by Eurocoms for most of this century.

You are incorrect. Liberia was America's disaster. Ethiopia was independent for much of the century.

And cut the name calling, it's petty. Besides which- are you seriously suggesting America did a great job with its empire? The Philippines? Cuba?

It is to larf, really.

	25-03-2003 10:49									#47
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Liberia is the ONLY place with American involvement. That's a scratch on a much larger surface of a European created disaster.

Look at the damn maps. You will see Brit German Italian French Belgian colors splattered all over the entire continent.

	25-03-2003 10:52									#48
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quote: Besides which- are you seriously suggesting America did a great job with its empire? The Philippines? Cuba?

Puerto Rico looks pretty good. As do all the Western States (including Alaska and Hawaii), as well as Wake and Guam and American Samoa. You expect every place in an empire to turn up roses?

And the Philippines was the ONLY colony in history where the indigenous people could gain positions of power and have authority over people from the colonizing country. The Phillipine head of engineering in the 1920s was a Filipino, who gave orders to white Americans. That's a hell of statement compared to what happened in other empires.

	25-03-2003 10:56									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Besides which- are you seriously suggesting America did a great job with its empire? The Philippines? Cuba? Puerto Rico looks pretty good.

Compared to what? The only places in the US poorer than Puerto Rico are the Indian reservations that don't have casinos.

	25-03-2003 10:56									#50
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Look, the point here is that Eurcom should be the one to clean up the African disaster:

Attachment: colonies.jpg
This has been downloaded 97 time(s).

	25-03-2003 10:59									#51
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quote: Compared to what?

Ever been to parts of the former British Empire before? Or any other former colony?

	25-03-2003 11:00									#52
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Do you think you're being profound?

Anyway, given the support the US has given to anti-democratic movements and dictators there in the last half century, we've got our own fair share of mess to clean up.

	25-03-2003 11:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Compared to what? Ever been to parts of the former British Empire before? Or any other former colony?

Does Canada count?

	25-03-2003 11:02									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Compared to what? Ever been to parts of the former British Empire before? Or any other former colony?

You mean like Singapore? Australia? New Zealand? Kuwait? Canada?

	25-03-2003 11:02									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Compared to what? The only places in the US poorer than Puerto Rico are the Indian reservations that don't have casinos.

Compared to the rest of Latin America. If Puerto Rico were independent it would be the wealthiest nation in Latin America, and I believe, the third wealthiest in the Americas.

	25-03-2003 11:02									#56
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Okay former British colonies that don't have a majority of British descended people.

	25-03-2003 11:02									#57
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AKA WHITE PEOPLE

	25-03-2003 11:04									#58
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Do you think you're being profound? Anyway, given the support the US has given to anti-democratic movements and dictators there in the last half century, we've got our own fair share of mess to clean up.

I don't deny that.

But this thread is about Africa.

	25-03-2003 11:06									#59
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quote: Does Canada count?

No, it's a settler colony. It is not comparable to the US 'empire' (as long as you don't count 'the West US' as part of it)

quote: You mean like Singapore? Australia? New Zealand? Kuwait? Canada?

Take out all the places that were settler colonies (ie, British moved in), and see what they did to the natives.

I'd MUCH rather be in Puerto Rico than India, Kuwait, Pakistan, etc.

	25-03-2003 11:08									#60
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I agree with Ted.
A good part of the African disaster is directly due to Europe's sheer incompetence or unwillingness to improve the situation.
France has played an especially important role, by keeping its postcolonial influence pretty everywhere in the French-speaking countries (including Zaïre and Rwanda), and tries to expand its influence in other countries by being buddy-buddy with every tinpot dictator.
It was great for Elf and other firmas, but the African people suffered greatly from this.

However, the African mess cannot be repaired without a voluntary action and even initiative from the Africans, or at least the African elites. Africa cannot accept decisions solely met in Paris or London anymore. The French compromise suggestion for Ivory Coast is an example of this : de Villepin suggested the formation of a national government encompassing elements from the rebellion and from the regular government, and the whole population rejected it violently, accusing France of favoring the other side.