 |
| |
|
|
Static Universe
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Only one persons views on what the US flag really represents... |
But increasingly prevalent, IMO.
As someone who is pro-American, I really don't have a problem with flagburners, or people who feature them in their avatars. I find this whole movement to ban burning to be the worst sort of lowest common denominator politics, as ultimately it means absolutely nothing and changes nothing for the better.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Comrade Tassadar
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Amesjustin
The American Flag DOES stand for not only the government, but the people, the freedoms, the Democracy and right now the soldiers who are overseas risking their lives for all of it. And when you are supporting the burning of the flag you are basically taking a big steaming crap on ALL of that not just a specific part. |
NO!
A flag stands for a POLITICAL ENTITY, thats all. Some people attach emotions and ideals to the flag. I don't.
When I burn the flag or fly it upside down, I'm expressing my anger at the administration, not the people. I want the people of this country to be FREE of Bush so that it can begin to prosper again.
The soldiers overseas are not risking their lives for a flag....They are risking their lives for FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY (In most cases). In fact, when an anti-flag burning bill entered congress, quite a few vetrans said "No. I dont like this one bit." because THEY DID NOT FIGHT FOR A FLAG.
I'm sure Maniac shares the same views as I do. I'm sure he hopes the American people well, but is just so angry at the administration that burning what symbolizes the political entity gives him relief. And I just dont believe you should ignore him for that, especially considering that you too are angry at Bush.
Now if he were showing dead pictures of Americans and saying "Kill the Infidels!!!", then yeah, he would be anti-american. But otherwise.......I just dont see it as logical.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Maniac
|
 |
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:27
|
|
Not again. 
I wonder if Amesjustin even read my previous posts...
As said before, I don't like the current mainstream American political-economical-ideological system.
On the political side, I feel the American system isn't very democratic. The current Bush administration is a pawn of the energy & military industry. So the USA currently is a plutocracy, not a democracy. Sure, you'll argue that the people elected them, but the problem is all television broadcasting companies are in private hands, giving them a huge benefit to influence people's opinion. Also I don't like the two-party system. The USA's system is almost as bad as Italy's with Berlusconi.
The political side is linked with the economical side. The government's control over the economy is too weak IMO, leaving free reign to corporate abuses, such as the above-mentioned monopolisation of the media industry. There should be more rules and regulations to prevent social and environmental abuses. Also more government sponsoring of education, health care, public transport etc to ensure equal opportunities.
On the ideological side I don't like the libertarian ideology, as you might have guessed from the two previous paragraphs. Also I don't like the growing ethical conservativeness / christian fundamentalism. Also I don't buy the propaganda that the War in Iraq would be about freedom and democracy, and destruction of WMD. They are factors, but certainly not the most important.
As you can read, the USA's system is not at all similar to what I would desire, so I don't like them being the only world power. I'd rather see the European Union, of which the pol-eco systems of its prime members are closer to my own ideology, as another world power in a multipolar world.
So my issues with the USA are mostly structural in nature. It goes further than a simple dislike of the Bush administration, but it's ridiculous to claim I would feel hatred towards the entire American people.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Amesjustin
|
 |
of nothing
Feb 2002
time: 21:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
Not again.
I wonder if Amesjustin even read my previous posts...
As said before, I don't like the current mainstream American political-economical-ideological system.
On the political side, I feel the American system isn't very democratic. The current Bush administration is a pawn of the energy & military industry. So the USA currently is a plutocracy, not a democracy. Sure, you'll argue that the people elected them, but the problem is all television broadcasting companies are in private hands, giving them a huge benefit to influence people's opinion. Also I don't like the two-party system. The USA's system is almost as bad as Italy's with Berlusconi.
The political side is linked with the economical side. The government's control over the economy is too weak IMO, leaving free reign to corporate abuses, such as the above-mentioned monopolisation of the media industry. There should be more rules and regulations to prevent social and environmental abuses. Also more government sponsoring of education, health care, public transport etc to ensure equal opportunities.
On the ideological side I don't like the libertarian ideology, as you might have guessed from the two previous paragraphs. Also I don't like the growing ethical conservativeness / christian fundamentalism. Also I don't buy the propaganda that the War in Iraq would be about freedom and democracy, and destruction of WMD. They are factors, but certainly not the most important.
As you can read, the USA's system is not at all similar to what I would desire, so I don't like them being the only world power. I'd rather see the European Union, of which the pol-eco systems of its prime members are closer to my own ideology, as another world power in a multipolar world.
So my issues with the USA are mostly structural in nature. It goes further than a simple dislike of the Bush administration, but it's ridiculous to claim I would feel hatred towards the entire American people. |
First off, I agree this is not the right forum for a political debate. If you would like to start a thread in the OT forum we can continue it there.
Pretty pointless though, since MY point is that at least to us Americans, flag burning DOES express hatred toward everything American including the people. I have read your previous arguments, and again they are moot. If you would have read MY previous posts you would have known that I only partially disagree with your arguments. What I take issue with is your insensitivity towards Americans and what our flag means to us. Think of flag burning as someone defecating on the most holy object of whatever religion you belong to. Very offensive indeed.
People find flag burning offensive because they take it as a personal attack against them everything about their lives (If they are amereican). An THAT is why they find it offensive, and THAT is why this thread is here.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27.
Apolyton Time is 00:27. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-03-2003 01:38
Attachment: 
you. 
Says an American! 
|
