03-04-2003 09:50									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai But apparently he strongly support the war as long as someone else does the dirty work, and as long as someone else pays for it. With countrymen like these...

Who said someone else should pay for it?
The people in the war should pay for it.

I wouldn't be valuable as a soldier, my skills are better used elsewhere, so I'll be elsewhere.

It's obviously a last-resort tactic to tell people who support the war to go join the army. So you boys should rethink that one...

	03-04-2003 09:51									#32
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither So, I guess you'll be looking for the nearest American tank to block with your body then, right Tingkai?

Well said.

	03-04-2003 09:53									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Asher By the time I'd be done boot camp, the war would be over.

No way, there's a 20 year occupation while they loot the
place, plenty of time for you to serve guarding the oilfields. Give a vet a break and take his place, so your
boys can come home.

	03-04-2003 09:55									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Who said someone else should pay for it? The people in the war should pay for it. I wouldn't be valuable as a soldier, my skills are better used elsewhere, so I'll be elsewhere. It's obviously a last-resort tactic to tell people who support the war to go join the army. So you boys should rethink that one...

So, you're saying that those of us who DON'T support the war... which is the majority of the country... should do more than you're doing (which is apparently nothing)?

If you don't do anything, why should Canada? Put your money where your mouth (or keyboard ) is.

	03-04-2003 09:56									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz No way, there's a 20 year occupation while they loot the place, plenty of time for you to serve guarding the oilfields. Give a vet a break and take his place, so your boys can come home.

The computer people seldom are out in the battlefield I'm told.

	03-04-2003 09:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man So, you're saying that those of us who DON'T support the war... which is the majority of the country... should do more than you're doing (which is apparently nothing)? If you don't do anything, why should Canada? Put your money where your mouth (or keyboard ) is.

Do you realize you're making no sense?

I think that Canada should join in, and help pay for, the war.

As a Canadian taxpayer, I'd be helping fund that just as everyone else.

You also don't understand that people have different roles in society. Not everyone can, and not everyone should, join the military (I wouldn't be permitted in the US forces because of my sexuality anyway).

If we followed your logic, the only people who'd ever have a say in war are the people in the military.

You sure you don't wanna change your tune?

And as NYE said, as someone who opposes the war, unless you go and do something about it, perhaps YOU should be quiet, da?

Go step infront of a tank, go be a human shield. Hey, it's your logic.

	03-04-2003 10:02									#37
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We should toss Cellucci out...

	03-04-2003 10:02									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The computer people seldom are out in the battlefield I'm told.

Right, you decide what you'll be doing.

They need grunts, Infantry not techs, just like
every other war in history, people start on supply
and end up in a rifle squad.

	03-04-2003 10:03									#39
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Maybe we should adopt Six Thousand Year Old Man's suggestions, although I don't think he thought them through.

The more you contribute and pay in taxes to the country, the more your vote is worth.

Score. That'd be one sweet nation.

	03-04-2003 10:04									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger We should toss Cellucci out...

Good idea. Let's escalate.

	03-04-2003 10:04									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Right, you decide what you'll be doing. They need grunts, Infantry not techs, just like every other war in history, people start on supply and end up in a rifle squad.

Hey Ozz, maybe you don't understand how it works.

I do computers. I'm not a fighter.

Any smart military assigns someone to what they're good at. I've already got half a degree (a bit more, actually) in computer science, which entitles me to a $20,000 signing bonus alone in the Canadian Forces.

They aren't going to pay me $20K to sign up, and then go make me a grunt. I'd obviously be trained in the information systems.

College students tend to become officers, not grunts. And college students with technically useful college degrees tend to go into those fields, and don't become field commanders.

	03-04-2003 10:06									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'll be paying US taxes soon enough, they'll get their due.

And you're the one moaning about the brain drain?

	03-04-2003 10:07									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Willem And you're the one moaning about the brain drain?

I'm one of the people who realizes how absolutely REAL it is.

Of course I'm the one moaning about the brain drain, why the eyeroll?

There are reasons so many compsci students fly south. Ottawa doesn't care, Asian immigrants take our position when we leave.

Ottawa considers that okay, I think Ottawa should work on building up industries rather than barely sustaining.

But hey, I'm no politician.

	03-04-2003 10:07									#44
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Good idea. Let's escalate.

Yes, he needs to be "Pied" Banna cream would be best.

	03-04-2003 10:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Yes, he needs to be "Pied" Banna cream would be best.

Perhaps a nice souffle would be more in line with current moods.

	03-04-2003 10:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Perhaps a nice souffle would be more in line with current moods.

	03-04-2003 10:15									#47
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither So, I guess you'll be looking for the nearest American tank to block with your body then, right Tingkai?

When the Americans invade Canada, yup.

	03-04-2003 10:17									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There are reasons so many compsci students fly south. Ottawa doesn't care, Asian immigrants take our position when we leave.

No, 0.99 American students will replace you. The 2 or 3 Asian students are just gravy...

	03-04-2003 10:18									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Hey Ozz, maybe you don't understand how it works. I do computers. I'm not a fighter.

Oh, I think I do, They give you basic, and your happly
adding hex at your terminal and a Field Captain walks in, "I need 3 volunteers as replacement infantry, you,
you and you.

Computer science, don't want to burst yer balloon, but
it ain't that rare. (I'm a systems analyst btw)

	03-04-2003 10:19									#50
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Good idea. Let's escalate.

The first time is one thing. He expressed his government's position. Fine.

This is getting to be rude. We should tell them we don't appreciate it. Do you see our ambassador (is it still Chrétien's brother?) walking around Washington chiding them for going to war?

	03-04-2003 10:21									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger No, 0.99 American students will replace you. The 2 or 3 Asian students are just gravy...

That's in general.
Look at the IT/CS figures.

	03-04-2003 10:24									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Oh, I think I do, They give you basic, and your happly adding hex at your terminal and a Field Captain walks in, "I need 3 volunteers as replacement infantry, you, you and you.

Well, if you're so sure perhaps I should talk to my friend from HS. Who serves with the PPCLI as a communications (computer) systems guy. He doesn't even have a degree, he did a two year SAIT diploma in IT. He basically maintains networks for them military.

Don't be offended, I just don't believe a word you're saying right now because it defies all logic and anecdotal evidence.

Hand a computer geek a weapon in combat...
That's probably doing more harm than good to your unit, you know.

quote: Computer science, don't want to burst yer balloon, but it ain't that rare. (I'm a systems analyst btw)

Hey, I know it ain't that rare, but this is what I gathered from talking with the recruiters here and my friend who actually IS doing computer **** with the Canadian forces.

Which uni and what kind of degree do you have?

"Systems analyst" sounds like a diploma job.

	03-04-2003 10:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's in general. Look at the IT/CS figures.

Lets separate the straw from the chaff here

How many of these are programmer class types and how many network techs?

Only the first is a problem, and that brain drain is caused
by moronic canadian corporate management not Ottawa.

	03-04-2003 10:29									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Lets separate the straw from the chaff here How many of these are programmer class types and how many network techs? Only the first is a problem, and that brain drain is caused by moronic canadian corporate management not Ottawa.

Both are going south. They're related fields for the most part.

And it's not just moronic Canadian corporate management, it's simple facts: You pay less taxes in the US. Computer stuff, by and large, is not specific to a region. You can develop the same software for cheaper in the US, as well as tap into a larger employment pool, so that's where the companies go, and the computer people with them.

Ottawa doesn't seem to realize how EASY it is to get an H1-B and go work as a computer guy in the US.

	03-04-2003 10:34									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The first time is one thing. He expressed his government's position. Fine. This is getting to be rude. We should tell them we don't appreciate it. Do you see our ambassador (is it still Chrétien's brother?) walking around Washington chiding them for going to war?

I'm still wondering what is wrong with anything he is quoted as saying in the piece quoted at the opening of the thread.

	03-04-2003 10:40									#56
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Because it's getting to be a bit much. He made a public statement that was "above and beyond" normal diplo speak. Okay. He gets a get out of jail free card.

He should stop talking about it now. He's not on Apolyton, he's not shooting the breeze, he's not making the US' feelings known in private. He's as close as diplomats get to scolding with countries they're not planning on going to war with.

He doesn't have to apologise, or "clarify". He (or whoever's telling him what to say) just needs to learn when enough is enough. We all heard him the first time.

	03-04-2003 10:45									#57
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm still wondering what is wrong with anything he is quoted as saying in the piece quoted at the opening of the thread.

He's entitled to his viewpoint, but he's beginning to sound like a whiny nag.

	03-04-2003 10:46									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Don't be offended, I just don't believe a word you're saying right now because it defies all logic and anecdotal evidence. Which uni and what kind of degree do you have? "Systems analyst" sounds like a diploma job.

Right, Thats the army, my old man was a navigator/airgunner, but after being shot down,
he was a machine gunner for the infantry during the battle of Dunkirk. He was volunteered.

Diploma? There were no courses then

Electrical Engineer, they didn't have "CS" back then it was DP and on punch cards on an IBM 370 when I started. They also took math majors as programmers.

I wouldn't judge CS jobs by their titles, older orgs
use older titles. You'd be a "Junior Programmer" or "Operator Trainee"

	03-04-2003 10:48									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz I wouldn't judge CS jobs by their titles, older orgs use older titles. You'd be a "Junior Programmer" or "Operator Trainee"

My intern title for this summer is "Systems Integrator". (doesn't that sound fun!)

	03-04-2003 10:51									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You can develop the same software for cheaper in the US

No, Their are tradeoffs both ways, we've had American
programmersworking here too. Softwares costs are
directly related to quality of management.