10-04-2003 18:36									#31
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I don't actually care if they are socialist, catholic or right wing they still shouldn't ban this stuff

thats where you're a bit clueless.
christian democrats and conservatives are far mroe likely to ban this stuff especially if they dont have a bit of a liberal in them.


socialists and left wing would not ban it.

simple. I just find it funny that EiF is so quick to balme the brit babies eating EP insteand of its own political orientation. (not that i dont agree with him at his revolt at the vote)

	10-04-2003 19:47									#32
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Don't forget the EP is the trash of European politics. This nearly powerless body is the retirement home of plenty conservative politicians who would never be accepted at a more serious position. That's why you have so many MEPs opposed to abortion. That's why some have tried to put the word "God" in the incoming constitution (ok, it was Poland's request).

I agree these Christian-Democrat parties won't help making Europe a modern place. I knew religion has a strong influence on politicians in Germany, Ireland and Portugal. Is it influent in other countries too ?

	10-04-2003 19:48									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Wow, amazingly enough, it doesn't bother anyone here! http://www.aaas.org/spp/cstc/issues/stemcells.htm Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa, Israel - 4 Cell lines. [/university pride chest-thumping]

Wow !
We need Israel in the EU !

	10-04-2003 19:49									#34
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Even though the UK has a state religion and the Pm gets to appoint its leader, religion palys little part in our politics

	10-04-2003 20:07									#35
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SPiffor, good point.

	10-04-2003 20:17									#36
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Even though the UK has a state religion and the Pm gets to appoint its leader, religion palys little part in our politics

This is exactly what I love in the UK. There are plenty of medieval political traditions and formalities, but the reality is one of a modern democracy

	10-04-2003 20:22									#37
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Me too, religion has no business in politics.

	10-04-2003 20:24									#38
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however, this needs to be said.

the EP might well get all the scum worthless MPs but that's bascially an immidiate consequence of it not having any real significant powers.


themoment it acquires them you can see much more worthy MPs going there.

not that there already arent some

	10-04-2003 21:02									#39
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So, basically, all the best Greek politicians sit in the European Parliament?

It is highly ironic that two of the most obvious failed British politicians - Neil Kinnock and Chris Patten - now sit in extremely highly-powered, unelected office earning more than either would have done had they made it to the top in Britain.

No justice.

	10-04-2003 21:04									#40
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Out of interest, why is the European Parliament even discussing this in the first place?

	10-04-2003 21:05									#41
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No Greece doesnt send its best MP to the EP either, although some are really worthy.


again 2nd mistake by EiF patten has no real power as neither does the EP.... thats why

	10-04-2003 21:05									#42
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Back to the more important point, if stem research is banned in the EU and the US where should I go to get my clone army built?

	10-04-2003 21:14									#43
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I had hope that the europeans would continue to allow stem cell research... sad indeed.

There is hope however; Non-embryotic stem cells have proven useful in research. Also, California passed legislation last year to promote stem cell research (the only thing good Gray Davis has done for this state).

I strongly support stem cell research, and would love to see it gain federal support. If not, there will be a lot of whining by a lot of ppl when those companies begin to make a lot of money.

	10-04-2003 21:16									#44
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It's not banned yet and it probably won't be.

	10-04-2003 21:22									#45
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It is silly to ban it.

You'll have the galapacos islands or someone doing it and getting all themoney.

plus ias eif correctly wrote this could be used to try and cure some nasty deseases, we may be dumb but we aint that dumb

	10-04-2003 21:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* It is highly ironic that two of the most obvious failed British politicians - Neil Kinnock and Chris Patten - now sit in extremely highly-powered, unelected office earning more than either would have done had they made it to the top in Britain.

Chris Patten can wipe my arse.

	10-04-2003 21:32									#47
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Does the European Parliament record votes? Any way of knowing who voted for it?

	10-04-2003 21:33									#48
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 plus ias eif correctly wrote this could be used to try and cure some nasty deseases, we may be dumb but we aint that dumb

Like repairing your brain and spinal cord.

	10-04-2003 21:46									#49
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Does the European Parliament record votes? Any way of knowing who voted for it?

Some votes are held with hands, but most votes (ordinary ones) are held through electronics. I don't know if the voters' names are archived somewhere.
However, all speeches held in plenum can be found on the net. I'll look into it, and I'll tell you what were the parties' positions.

Edit : the vote has been held today between 12:00 and 13:00 (among other ones), Strasbourg time. The verbatim of the session isn't out yet. I'll look into it again tomorrow, or monday.

	10-04-2003 21:51									#50
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This is one thing I don't understand. Why do opponents of stem-cell research believe in the opinions of self-proclaimed self-righteous leaders? These people have an objection on a science they know little or nothing about based upon beliefs that can't be subtantiated one bit. I don't recall reading anywhere in the Bible that stem cell research is bad.

We trust the medical community with our lives, but yet, we can't trust them to make the right, moral decision when it comes to the abuse of cloning? I tend to believe that if there was something illegal and unethical about stem-cell research, then doctors who swear an oath to protect life wouldn't commit such abuses. I know quite a few people who are involved in stem-cell research, international and domestic US (legal forms of it). The general consensus is that there is nothing unethical about the research, yet we allow self-righteous politicians with other agendas to ban such research. My dad is suffering from congestive heart failure. There is stem cell research that could help him grow new heart muscles and live. I find it terribly hypocritical that opponents of stem-cell research are protecting the sanctity of life.

	10-04-2003 22:02									#51
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You said it Sava...

	10-04-2003 22:20									#52
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quote: Does the European Parliament record votes? Any way of knowing who voted for it?

I'm rather interested in this, too. Particularily in which Finnish MEPs voted for what.

Ari Vatanen probably voted for the ban. Does that man care about anything but car taxes and abortion?

	11-04-2003 12:51									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Chris Patten can wipe my arse.

Neil Kinnock would have been far worse

	11-04-2003 13:13									#54
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quote: A huge kick in the teeth for those with relatives suffering from Alzheimers or Parkinsons disease amongst others... I've got plenty of gripes with the European Parliament but I didn't think having a stone-age attitude to vital genetic research that could help thousands if not more terminally ill people was one of them. Disgraceful.

EiF:

May I kill you and extract your organs? After all, your organs would save many terminally ill people.

	11-04-2003 13:47									#55
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 May I kill you and extract your organs? After all, your organs would save many terminally ill people.

And your point is...?

Don't give me the crap that the stem cell has every bit as much right to life as a fully grown human being. Besides, if these cells weren't being tested then they'd never have been created in the first place.

So what's the problem?

	11-04-2003 14:01									#56
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quote: a fully grown human being

Okay, so why can't we extract organs from children since they are not fully grown human beings, and their organs will save many people's lives?

quote: Besides, if these cells weren't being tested then they'd never have been created in the first place.

So it is right to create someone for the purposes of harvesting organs?

	11-04-2003 14:03									#57
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your guide of what life is and when life begins obiwan is not based on science, rather your own religious and moral conviction.

this is a scientific pursuit, not religious. never the two shall meet.

	11-04-2003 14:04									#58
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You can't clone humans anyway
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2936401.stm

	11-04-2003 14:09									#59
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MRT144:

quote: your guide of what life is and when life begins obiwan is not based on science,

Don't say that! You'll scare the pre-meds if they realise their textbooks are not based on science.

We do not need embryonic stem cell research because adult stem cells will provide the same benefits.

	11-04-2003 17:19									#60
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Okay, so why can't we extract organs from children since they are not fully grown human beings, and their organs will save many people's lives?

This is exactly what I was talking about. There is this misconception that people will be grown, and then their organs will be harvested.

For instance... my mother is 54 years old. She has donated her remaining embryos to such research to help my father. Those embryos would have otherwise been wasted. Yet they have a chance to save a life. No scientist is going to grow a person and then kill them for their organs. The biggest problem with this issue is passionate people who really aren't informed about what stem cell research actually is.