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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wtiberon
Also Remember that the Roman Army near their end had employed a majority of Barbarians who held no loyalty to Rome. This hurt them in two ways...Barbarian armies were full of ex-Roman trained soldiers and Roman armies were less effective against them because of they weren't as willing to fight.
So to say that the Barbarians were low tech is a misnomer since the Roman army was not much more technologically advanced than the other tribes. Even more so since tribes were beggining to use horse calvary (ala Huns) as a main attack weapon which the rigid Roman army refused to do.
A better example would be the U.S. v Vietcong. This was definitly a case of low tech and greater motivation v high tech and low motivation. The vietcong won that war because they had the much greater will to win then the U.S. |
The Vietcong were decimated in 1968. The North Vietnamese Army carried the burden of the fighting. They were very effective.
Also, getting back to Rome, IIRC, the Germans did not use cavalry in any manner different than the Romans. The Goths, though, relied on heavy cavalry. After Theodosius became Emperor, he employed Goth cavalry in the Roman army.
The major deciding factor in the fall of the Western Empire was Alaric, King of the Goths, and the split in the empire at the same time that prevented the strong Western army from decisively defeating him when he first got out of control in the East. Later, when Alaric conquered West, he forced Stilicho to strip the frontier of troops to defend Italy. This caused the Germans to invade, first Italy in 406, and then Gaul in 407. The West Romans never really recovered from these events. In 408-410, the Roman army in Britain move into the Northern Gaul. Britain was abandoned. The Franks took up permanent residence in the Low countries. The Burgundians settled into a good portion of the Empire. The Goths settled in Gaul. The Vandals, Suebi and other German tribes held Hispania and soon took Africa.
From these positions, the Germans and Goths slowly expanded until only Italy and Provence were under Roman control. Then Odacer revolted.
The death of the Empire was decided by politics.
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Wtiberon
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Foxfire, NC
Feb 2003
time: 00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
The Vietcong were decimated in 1968. The North Vietnamese Army carried the burden of the fighting. They were very effective.
Also, getting back to Rome, IIRC, the Germans did not use cavalry in any manner different than the Romans. The Goths, though, relied on heavy cavalry. After Theodosius became Emperor, he employed Goth cavalry in the Roman army.
The major deciding factor in the fall of the Western Empire was Alaric, King of the Goths, and the split in the empire at the same time that prevented the strong Western army from decisively defeating him when he first got out of control in the East. Later, when Alaric conquered West, he forced Stilicho to strip the frontier of troops to defend Italy. This caused the Germans to invade, first Italy in 406, and then Gaul in 407. The West Romans never really recovered from these events. In 408-410, the Roman army in Britain move into the Northern Gaul. Britain was abandoned. The Franks took up permanent residence in the Low countries. The Burgundians settled into a good portion of the Empire. The Goths settled in Gaul. The Vandals, Suebi and other German tribes held Hispania and soon took Africa.
From these positions, the Germans and Goths slowly expanded until only Italy and Provence were under Roman control. Then Odacer revolted.
The death of the Empire was decided by politics. |
Your misinformed...I know of the battle you are talking about where on Tet Holiday they launched a massive campaign against S. Vietnam. 37,000 vietcong where killed including top leaders but this did not "decimate" them. They continued to operate into the 1970s (which was only 3 years before we left) from Cambodia...obviously they were far less effective than the North Vietnamese army but still very effective
The fall of Rome is far too debatable topic to discuss in this thread as it will take us waaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic. If you want to start a thread I would be more than happy to discuss this.
The point I was trying to make anyway was that military might is wholly different from economic success. While each one can greatly enhance the other having one does not give you the other.
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gunkulator
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"Apart from the aqueducts, sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, and public health, what did the Romans ever do for us?"
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18-04-2003 11:26
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