21-04-2003 22:54									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Some wouldn't take passport? That's just stupid . As Tinyp3nis pointed out, they are usually the most 'respectd' IDs anywhere (well not in US I guess).

You have to understand that grocery store clerks in the US are very unlikely to have ever seen a passport, so them accepting it is probably a long shot. A laminated piece of plastic with "Driver's License" stamped on it they are quite familiar with, however.

	24-04-2003 05:51									#32
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Rules are rules.

I wouldn't risk getting fired and having a $1000 fine just because you needed to smoke.

I would have done the exact same thing as that guy did. Sorry, but life's a *****.

	24-04-2003 06:34									#33
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Happy Birthday

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Rules are rules. I wouldn't risk getting fired and having a $1000 fine just because you needed to smoke.

You're misunderstanding my point; I'm not saying that he should have risked it, my problem is that there was no risk involved in the first place.

NO policeman would ever fine him that $1000 for selling 2 minutes early. Even if one did, he could easily have gotten out of it in court. Furthermore, no policeman would stage a sting with that kind of catch. I say that because I know cops, and because I'm currently training to be one.

	24-04-2003 07:17									#34
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quote: You're misunderstanding my point; I'm not saying that he should have risked it, my problem is that there was no risk involved in the first place. NO policeman would ever fine him that $1000 for selling 2 minutes early. Even if one did, he could easily have gotten out of it in court. Furthermore, no policeman would stage a sting with that kind of catch. I say that because I know cops, and because I'm currently training to be one.

Bullshit! He WOULDN'T have gotten out of it in court! It doesn't matter if it was 2 minutes or 2 years, if you SELL, you are GUILTY! It's a strict liability crime.

And he wasn't worried about the cops most likely either. Getting fired is an internal policy (at least where I worked... and they'd never hire you again as well).

Like I said, I would have done the exact same thing. I don't care what the 'risk' was. The risk did exist, no matter how much you protest that it does not.

	24-04-2003 07:28									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Bullshit! He WOULDN'T have gotten out of it in court! It doesn't matter if it was 2 minutes or 2 years, if you SELL, you are GUILTY!

Unless his defense is that his watch read 12:00, as was already mentioned on this thread.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The risk did exist, no matter how much you protest that it does not.

Well how can I respond to that?

	24-04-2003 07:34									#36
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it is absurd but what is more absurd is the fact that if the man sold you the smokes he might have gotten in trouble.

	24-04-2003 07:47									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sheik it is absurd but what is more absurd is the fact that if the man sold you the smokes he might have gotten in trouble.

Nope.

	24-04-2003 07:51									#38
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The real issue here is that we have to have this conversation in the first place. I mean, come on - the government setting age limits on who can smoke a cigarette? Jesus Christ? If the justification is that they kill you, then shouldn't they ban them for everyone?

No, "underage" (which is a misnomer anyway - underage as opposed to what?) smoking is a parenting problem, not a government problem. If the parents don't give a ****, why should the government? And before someone trots out the argument that parents are letting kids harm themselves, the same argument would hold true with allowing kids to take martial arts, play competitive sports, ride a bicycle in the street, and any number of other things. Do those things need age limits too?

	24-04-2003 07:56									#39
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quote: Unless his defense is that his watch read 12:00, as was already mentioned on this thread.

He couldn't have used that as a defense, DUH! The store closes at 12:00. If that store was anything like my store, the manager is up at the front during closing.

quote: Nope.

Says a man who (it seems) has never worked in retail dealing with age specific items. I've seen people get fired for selling to people who were under 18 (and only by a few days, IIRC).

David: NO, that ISN'T the issue, and stop pimping your moral views on the government to try to make it the issue.

--

Rules are rules. I didn't violate them when I was working at CVS, and I don't expect any other sales guy to.

	24-04-2003 07:58									#40
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quote: David: NO, that ISN'T the issue

Well, if potential danger to children isn't the issue, then what possible argument do you have for an age limit for cigarettes? Surely you don't support a law just for the mere exercise of power?

	24-04-2003 08:00									#41
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You're an idiot, David .

The issue ISN'T THE JUSTIFICATION OF AGE LIMITS ON SMOKING!

It's the application of those limits by retail clerks, you numbnut!

	24-04-2003 08:01									#42
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No, dumbass, my post was an attack on the age limits, period. I took your post as an implication that the age limits had nothing to do with the danger of cigarettes. If I misunderstood you, well, I really don't care.

	24-04-2003 08:05									#43
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Yes, that is your problem. You stray into threads like a child entering the room in the middle of story who blabs on about what the story SHOULD be instead of what it IS. It's called reading the damned opening post and not spouting off on whatever sounds good to you at that moment in time.

I don't give a **** about your post, because it had nothing to do with anything.

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 24-04-2003 at 08:11

	24-04-2003 08:13									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Unless his defense is that his watch read 12:00, as was already mentioned on this thread. He couldn't have used that as a defense, DUH! The store closes at 12:00. If that store was anything like my store, the manager is up at the front during closing. quote: Nope. Says a man who (it seems) has never worked in retail dealing with age specific items. I've seen people get fired for selling to people who were under 18 (and only by a few days, IIRC). David: NO, that ISN'T the issue, and stop pimping your moral views on the government to try to make it the issue. -- Rules are rules. I didn't violate them when I was working at CVS, and I don't expect any other sales guy to.

I think some of you guys are over analyzing the situation.

I betcha $100 that things such as Imran mentioned recently wasnt going thru the man's head. He probably thought "Hmmm I CAN still get in trouble for selling a ciggy to this punkass. Hell no" and that probably was it.

But good reasoning Imran anyway.

I would have cussed the ****er off, but then again I never had problem buying ciggarettes even when I was underaged, so I probably wouldnt have been in that situation.

	24-04-2003 08:18									#45
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quote: Yes, that is your problem. You stray into threads like a child entering the room in the middle of story who blabs on about what the story SHOULD be instead of what it IS. It's called reading the damned opening post and not spouting off on whatever sounds good to you at that moment in time. I don't give a **** about your post, because it had nothing to do with anything.

Primary objective - amusing myself: Achieved
Secondary objective - getting someone riled up: Achieved

	24-04-2003 08:26									#46
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Primary objective - amusing myself: Achieved Secondary objective - getting someone riled up: Achieved

Tertiary objective-looking like an idiot: Achieved



I have been a store clerk and I wouldn't have sold them either.

There are other stores open past midnight, go to one of those.

Besides, carding a good looking women in her 30's is a great pickup line.

ACK!

	24-04-2003 08:27									#47
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quote: Tertiary objective-looking lik an idiot: Achieved

Yeah, that's part of the point of amusing myself.

	24-04-2003 08:29									#48
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Yeah, that's part of the point of amusing myself.

That would be an LOL smilie if it worked.

ACK!

	24-04-2003 09:01									#49
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quote: The real issue here is that we have to have this conversation in the first place. I mean, come on - the government setting age limits on who can smoke a cigarette? Jesus Christ? If the justification is that they kill you, then shouldn't they ban them for everyone? No, "underage" (which is a misnomer anyway - underage as opposed to what?) smoking is a parenting problem, not a government problem. If the parents don't give a ****, why should the government? And before someone trots out the argument that parents are letting kids harm themselves, the same argument would hold true with allowing kids to take martial arts, play competitive sports, ride a bicycle in the street, and any number of other things. Do those things need age limits too?

David,

while I often disagree with you and libertarians in general about economic issues, Ithink you have my exact same views when it come to issues like this! I hate smoking as much as the next person, but really even if you start chain smoking at ten it's not like you'll drop over dead at 20. Not that any 10 year old should ever smoke, but i wish the government would get out of our lives. Anyways why use age at all? It is a terrible measurement, they need a better measuring tool to decide when people are responsible enough to smoke, or vote, or drink, or drive, or own property, or whatever...i hate soccer moms and all of the forces on both the left and the right that thinks the only answer to every question is a new fvcking laws! i hate that bs sooooooooooooo bad!

anyways i'm with you david

	24-04-2003 09:18									#50
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Tuberski: (that's thumbs up)

Then again, it ain't hard getting David to look like an idiot.

	24-04-2003 12:18									#51
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quote: Then again, it ain't hard getting David to look like an idiot.

Not really, fool, when that's pretty much the entire point of my post.

	24-04-2003 17:24									#52
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Imran, I think it makes perfectly good sense in this thread to adress the fact that age limits on cigarettes and other things shouldn't exist. It's far from being a real threadjack and even further from being something you should get that angry about. Burn one down!

	24-04-2003 20:02									#53
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The only time I have ever been carded (for alcohol - I don't smoke) was in the US, in the Chicago suburbs. I was 28 at the time, so I was rather amazed, but my passport was enough ID. I wonder what he would have said if I had handed him my UK drivers license .

	24-04-2003 20:40									#54
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Go on and light up those death sticks, Darius. I'll see you in my clinic in a few years. Take your pick: lung cancer, bladder cancer, heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, peripheral vascular occlusive disease, hypertension, chronic venous insufficiency, deep venous thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, stroke, mouth cancer, tongue cancer, throat cancer...

Bless your heart, I'll be able to pay my student loans back in no time thanks to you!

	25-04-2003 01:51									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski There are other stores open past midnight, go to one of those.

I already said, I'm not 'compaining' about what he did. There was a 24-hour place right nextdoor, and I deliberately went to the one I went to just as an 'experiment', out of curiousity. I'm not even peeved at the guy, I just found it interesting.

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Go on and light up those death sticks, Darius. I'll see you in my clinic in a few years. Take your pick: lung cancer, bladder cancer, heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, peripheral vascular occlusive disease, hypertension, chronic venous insufficiency, deep venous thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, stroke, mouth cancer, tongue cancer, throat cancer... Bless your heart, I'll be able to pay my student loans back in no time thanks to you!

Don't start talking like that, or God'll give you a heartattack for the irony.

I already said I'm not a 'smoker'. I've had between 0 and 5 per week for three years, with no slide to addiction, and I very well could have none at all a few years from now.

Also, that has jack**** to do with this thread.

	25-04-2003 01:59									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Darius871 I already said I'm not a 'smoker'.

You smoke, but you're not a smoker?

Sorry D, not how it works. "I can quit anytime I want" is something nearly everyone says; but virtually no one is telling the truth when they say it.

If it is true--quit while you still can.

	25-04-2003 02:00									#58
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quote: Yes, that is your problem. You stray into threads like a child entering the room in the middle of story who blabs on about what the story SHOULD be instead of what it IS.

Funny that. I've seen countless threads here where various people (usually hard-right Americans on subjects such as gun control) wade into threads about what SHOULD be and blabber on about what IS.

	25-04-2003 02:02									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer You smoke, but you're not a smoker? Sorry D, not how it works. "I can quit anytime I want" is something nearly everyone says; but virtually no one is telling the truth when they say it. If it is true--quit while you still can.

Not strictly true. There are people that smoke once every blue moon, and they're certainly not addicted. I'll have a cigarette maybe once a month, but I've easily gone over a year and smoked none. Hardly addicted...

	25-04-2003 02:03									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer "I can quit anytime I want" is something nearly everyone says; but virtually no one is telling the truth when they say it.

Correct, 'virtually' everybody. In the past three years, the amount of tobacco I've used hasn't significantly increased, nor has it taken on a regular pattern. There were times where I had no cigarettes for weeks, had half a pack in a night, and not smoked again for a few more weeks. Social smokers do exist.