26-04-2003 23:01									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Slow: They actually made this point on the West Wing. I was shocked! The West Wing backing the 'right-wing' military?

Actually, they made a different point. The show claimed that stuff for the military had different requirements, like the $600 ashtray. It's designed to break into only a few peices rather than shatter, so that if a ship gets hit, there's less debris flying around. Why they just don't require the military to stop smoking instead is an unasked question.

	26-04-2003 23:04									#32
	Remove this text

quote: The show claimed that stuff for the military had different requirements, like the $600 ashtray.

Which is basically the same point . The government (the military) wants things done a different way, which enforces higher costs on the manufacturer.

quote: Why they just don't require the military to stop smoking instead is an unasked question.

Fascist .

	26-04-2003 23:13									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse You have to realize that defense contractors getting more money than they theorectically should isn't all bad. Look at Texas Instruments. Some of their defense money has gone to things like graphic calculators which many students use. Thus people really shouldn't automatically complain when there is much more defense spending than education spending.

Oh yeah, it all worked out fine for the Soviet union.

	26-04-2003 23:17									#34
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How so?

Because you are only triple taxed then...

	26-04-2003 23:18									#35
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So how much tax have these large corporations been paying? I wager most of them have an army of accountants to use every loophole in the book to avoid taxes.

Agreed. I am all for tax simplification. I think the current tax law is just as bad as the sheer amount of regulations. it rewards game-playing versus production.

	26-04-2003 23:19									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I agree with Mikey on the problems with defense contracting. Some of the same problems exist wrt non-defense work as well.

	27-04-2003 00:16									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Pretty much anything where people can get away with cost plus. Investor-owned utilities, public works contractors, and the like are just about as bad. Even low-bid procedures don't help, because fun and games with bidding and change orders on public works jobs is a career specialty, just like playing games with accounting and taxes.

	27-04-2003 00:53									#38
	Got spare money?

"Sloww is more or less technically right, but here's the deal: A lot of that crap isn't necessary, it's cooperative between procurement types in the services and the DoD and the defense contractors themselves. "



One thing to remember, now don't bust a gut, are the Ethics classes.
I've known Purchasing Agents that got shitcanned for taking like a fruit basket at Christmas, after numerous warnings.

	27-04-2003 01:34									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Pretty much anything where people can get away with cost plus. Investor-owned utilities, public works contractors, and the like are just about as bad. Even low-bid procedures don't help, because fun and games with bidding and change orders on public works jobs is a career specialty, just like playing games with accounting and taxes.

Yeah. What he said.

At TKG part of the fun was that they refused to do any Navy work! (And still grew at 30% during the early 90's recession while putting other firms out of work.) They jumped on the biotech/lab work and rode that hard. Architects and owners and such would specify hiring them. Heard a guy at TKG say, "it is hard to specify quality". But people seem to know it when they see it in private industry. And reputation means something.

TKG had also never gone through litigation (public works contractors do this stuff all the time...and in a sense you have to to get the bid...come in low and than make the money in change orders.) TKG also despised the "nickel and dime" change-orders. They would have a discussion if things started adding up. But usually byt that time, the owner or architect would sort of have a guilty air and say..."I knew we would have this talk..."

	27-04-2003 01:36									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've always thought that they should consider throwing out the low bid. But I don't know if that would work...i think it would with a large selection of contractors.