28-04-2003 14:52									#91
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And did you know, that Martin luther said, that sodomy is taking interests for money.

	28-04-2003 15:04									#92
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Obiwan -

quote: Gen 19:14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry [1] his daughters. He said, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!" But his sons-in-law thought he was joking. What else is God supposed to do? Force them out of the city? The same goes for Lot's wife, they had a choice to obey or disobey God's warning, and both of them chose to disobey.

They thought Lot was joking, as far as they knew, God wasn't sending them the message to get out.

quote: On what basis do you make this assertion?

Prior to the story about Sodom, there was a war in which Abraham allied with 4(?) kings against the 5(?) kings of the plains' cities. Zecharia Sitchin (The Wars of Gods and Men) has provided an analysis of that war and how it relates to the destruction of Sodom. While his conclusion is debatable, his research about the Kings involved in the war is quite intriguing.

quote: Gang-raping visitors to the city isn't enough?

That was my point, it is, but not asking to have sex, i.e., proposing a consensual act. So, did God destroy Sodom because the people asked to have sex with the messengers or because they tried to gang rape them? Did the former warrant such a reaction or was it the latter?

	28-04-2003 15:04									#93
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quote: I need to bring that up. You know what they say about homophobics ? Most of them are gay, but can't handle it.

I'm rubber and you're glue...

quote: And did you know, that Martin luther said, that sodomy is taking interests for money.

Do you know the actual term Luther uses for interest?

	28-04-2003 15:21									#94
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Berz:

X-Post earlier.

quote: They thought Lot was joking, as far as they knew, God wasn't sending them the message to get out.

You going to take the chance and stay, when Lot clearly warns them, and claims that this is the word from God?
Makes no sense to me, unless you doubt that Lot speaks the truth, and that Lot does not speak for God. You need pretty solid evidence to reject Lot's word, which the son-in-laws never even tried.

"Zecharia Sitchin"

I'll look into that when I am less tired. Thanks anyways.

quote: So, did God destroy Sodom because the people asked to have sex with the messengers or because they tried to gang rape them? Did the former warrant such a reaction or was it the latter?

To quote the immortal MtG:

"A little from column a, and a little from column b."

	28-04-2003 16:27									#95
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quote: Do you know the actual term Luther uses for interest?

Not in English. In German: Wucher. Which would be "usury".

"usury" in the middle ages = Any kind of interest.