10-06-2003 18:23									#31
	Got spare money?

UR: Please remeber this is not the place for discussion. Also, how does he pay for it: with 8.5% of his tax, and 1.7 Billion people. There is no such UN treaty passed since Marijuania joined. Indeed, Akiria has a weapons contract to supply the ISS, a UN initiative.

	10-06-2003 20:02									#32
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Akiria has a weapons contract to supply the ISS

As do we. Its 1.8 billion people btw . IIRC, the treaty only affected those nations already in the UN, and only to do with nukes being detonated in space. Otherwise, it would ban ICBM's too.

	11-06-2003 00:37									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

elijah: No you don't. The ISS was set up before Marijuania existed. If you mean the Apolyton Space Station, then we both do, although I believe them signing it with you makes mine void, and thus I will stop supplying. The ISS was a UN resolution from before Christmas, and the first that passed when Akiria joined the UN, before any other Apolyton Nation.

	11-06-2003 01:14									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I know we supplied some weapons and armour modules to the station that have been there for "years" (ooc: about 2/3 weeks). This was a one off thing mind, so if you have a long term thing I would guess its unaffected. Marijuania and thus now the LF has specialities in very high altitude weaponry, and linking with sensory systems that no other nation as yet has, so providing such a one off weapons systems is logical.

Nonetheless, I dont think we're meant to talk here, PM me if you want to continue this.

	11-06-2003 09:21									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I am moving this discussion to the "Military Strength" thread.

	13-06-2003 14:14									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Update of Mt.Gravatt forces

occ: I hope you don't mind Jack but your classifications seem one of the best so I borrowed it.

Armed Republic of Sheepsta (under New Sheepsta at NS)
Population: 485 million citizens (total of military 25 million (5.1%))
Capital: Chopsu

Army
--------------------
Troops: 4,000,000
Republic Gaurd 2,000,000 (better equipped than any other army)
National Guard(reserves, have been called up): 7,500,000
Paratroopers: 500,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):400,500
Tank Crews: 1,500,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000


Marines
-------------------
Troops: 2,500,000
Reverses: 1,000,000
Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80
Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big)
Attack Helicopters: 800
Transport Helocpters : 515

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 104,000
Reverses: 600,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70


Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 2,000,000
Reverses: 500,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : 25
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 400
AEGIS Destroyers: 100
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30
Attack Subs: 130
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)


Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Strategic Forces: 1,000,000
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified
New Fangled Fireships: Classified

	13-06-2003 14:18									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Mt. Gravatt nations

Confederacy of New Griffith
Population: 548 million
Enlisted: 27 million (4.8%)

Capital : Nathan

Army
--------------------
Troops: 6,000,000
Comfederate Gaurd 2,000,000
National Guard( reserves, have been called up): 7,500,000
Paratroopers: 500,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):400,500
Tank Crews: 1,500,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000


Marines
-------------------
Troops: 2,500,000
Reverses: 1,000,000
Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80
Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big)
Attack Helicopters: 800
Transport Helocpters : 515

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 104,000
Reverses: 600,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70


Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 2,000,000
Reverses: 500,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : 25
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 400
AEGIS Destroyers: 100
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30
Attack Subs: 130
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)


Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Strategic Forces: 1,000,000
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified

	13-06-2003 14:21									#38
	Support Apolyton

Mt. Gravatt nations continued

The Republic of Jobedpet
Population: 224 million
Enlisted Men: 11.2 million (5%)

Army
--------------------
Troops: 3,000,000
National Guard(reserves, have been called up): 4,500,000
Paratroopers: 500,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):400,500
Tank Crews: 1,500,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000


Marines
-------------------
Troops: 1,500,000
Reverses: 500,000
Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80
Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big)
Attack Helicopters: 800
Transport Helocpters : 515

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 104,000
Reverses: 600,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70


Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 1,000,000
Reverses: 500,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : 25
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 100
AEGIS Destroyers: 100
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30
Attack Subs: 30
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)


Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Strategic Forces:500,,000
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified
New Fangled Fireships: Classified

	13-06-2003 14:23									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Mt.Gravatt nations continued

The Democratic States of Neveria
Population: 231 million
Enlisted Forces: 11 million (4.7%)
Capital: Neveria City

Army
--------------------
Troops: 3,000,000
National Guard(reserves, have been called up): 4,500,000
Paratroopers: 500,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):400,500
Tank Crews: 1,500,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000


Marines
-------------------
Troops: 1,500,000
Reverses: 500,000
Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80
Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big)
Attack Helicopters: 800
Transport Helocpters : 515

Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 104,000
Reverses: 600,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70


Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 1,000,000
Reverses: 500,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : 25
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 100
AEGIS Destroyers: 100
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30
Attack Subs: 30
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power)


Startegic Forces:
---------------------
Strategic Forces:500,,000
Nuclear Warheads: classified
Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified
ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified
Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified
Biological Warheads: Classified
Chemcial Warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified
New Fangled Fireships: Classified

	13-06-2003 14:26									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Mt.Gravatt nations concluded

The Free Republic of Pax Sheepus
Population: 134 million
Enlisted Men: 6.5 million (4.6%)
Capital: Paxisa

Army
--------------------
Troops: 3,000,000
Paratroopers: 500,000
Spec/Ops: 100,000
Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):400,500
Tank Crews: 500,000
Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000
APC: 200,000
Self propelled Artillery: 23,000
Rocket Artillery: 10,000
Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472
Support Troops: 700,000


Airforce:
-----------------------
Pilots: 104,000
Reverses: 300,000
Support Crew: 300,000
Fighters: 10,000
Fighter/bombers: 5,000
Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000
Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100
Attack Helicopters: 10,000
Trasport Helicopters: 8,000
Rescue Helicopters: 7,000
Slealth Bombers: 50
Air Transport Planes: 100
Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight)
Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20
Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70


Navy:
----------------------
Sailors: 1,000,000
Reverses: 500,000
Support Crew: 400,000
Air Craft Carriers : 25
Naval Aircraft: 4,000
AEGIS Cruisers: 100
AEGIS Destroyers: 100
Missle Cruisers: 75
Missle Destroyers: 75
(Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30
Attack Subs: 30
Transport ships: 5,000
Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000
Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000
(Note all subs and carriers are powered by natural power)

	13-06-2003 18:02									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

ooc: Ummm, Sheep, those are massive armies according to the size of your nations, and as such would end up destroying your economies, and thus you physically wouldnt be able to muster those forces. Some of those aspects for Sheepsta are bigger than the LF, and the LF is nearly four times larger than Sheepsta.

Please revise.

A reasonable size for a military that wont crush the economy and viability of your nation is less than 15% of tax spending, which reasonably would equate to about 1-2% of GDP at most (talk to Drogue about that though). A very massive army would be about 1% of population, or 3/4% of able male population. That includes ALL military personel, including reserves, full timers, spec ops, navy, airforce etc etc.

For example, Pax Sheepus would have an army that would be almost large enough to cripple that nation economically, if it was 15% the size of what yuo stated. Same with Neveria, Jobedpet and most certainly New Griffith. Again with Sheepsta itself, although it is larger, this would be a reasonable size:

DEMO:
Sheepsta, pop 485million

Total military personel: 0.5% of population, or 2'425'000 people. Out of that, you could perhaps have 2.2 million as your army, the rest being air force and navy.

Your navy could have about a tenth of what you stated.

The airforce, being generous, would be 8-9% of what you stated.

Hope this guide is useful, but DONT take Jackson as your guide for military, if Jackson existed IRL, his nation would have 400% inflation, absolutely no money, and would economically implode, back to the stone age.

	13-06-2003 18:07									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Posting link again in here for Sheep's benifit.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13017

	14-06-2003 04:45									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR DISCUSSION

If you feel the need to discuss, please post in the discussion thread elijah. This is the 3rd time

Sorry, it's been a long day, and I do not like clutter. Just wanted to make sure all are aware of that rule

	22-06-2003 03:51									#44
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

*BUMP*

	23-06-2003 16:58									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I am in the process of revising my military. I admit it is to excessive, however I do apprecitate constructive criticism such as elijah's, I tend to ignore distructive criticisms. Would of done this sooner but I've been offline or neglecting this thread.

	24-06-2003 00:04									#46
	Suffering from ads?

Sheep: If you PM either Drogue (as the chairman), myself, or any other member of the military panel (in character), then we can officially prepare a more precise report than I was able to do on my own, although of course you could use the ones I gave but with a greater degree of flexibility.

	24-06-2003 03:00									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Please do not discuss here. Sheep, you asked for people to give advice on the Military Stats page, I have posted an example for New Sheepsta. Feel free to use it or not, but that is what I would use if it were my nation. I think it is fair and reasonable to all.

	25-06-2003 08:17									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Please Note that all these stats were current as of Monday the 25th June 2003. Things change however but I will not update these for at least 2 weeks. All Reservists get 4 weeks full time training a year, and get paid 10% of a full time wage.

Confederacy of New Griffith

Capital: Nathan
Population: 610,000,000
Military Population: 2,702,100 (Reserves: 1,001,500)
GDP: 32,321 US$
Total National Budget: 1,300,750,514,000 US$
Total Military Budget: 9,755,628,700 (9.75% of budget)

Army

Soldiers: 1,250,000
Reservists: 1,000,000
Paratroopers: 70,000
Confederate Garud: 45,000
Rhea Tanks: 4,000
Tank Crews: 12,000
Ops Jeeps: 4,000
Jeep Crews: 8,500
Ceres APC: 3,000
APC Crews: 10,000
Griffon Rocket: 750
Griffon Crews: 3,000
Basilisk Artillery: 1,000
Basilisk Crews: 4,100
Engineers: 50,000
Medical: 100,000
Research: 7,000
Bases: 65

Air Force
Piolits: 7,000
Support: 23,000
Reserves: 1,000
Zeus F4Bs: 1,750
Eranus F-B32s: 1,500
Apollo B32s: 600
Hermes Attack Helicopters: 1,250
Athanae TRansport Copters: 250
Hippocratic Resuce Chopters: 250
Hestia Transport Planes: 500
Dione Fuel Tankers: 12
Herra Radar Planes: 8
Military Air Fields: 23
Research: 7,500

Navy (based in Greater Lambston)
Sailors: 5,000
Reservists: 500
Piolits: 1,000
Eranus F-B32s: 950
Leto Class Cruisers: 5
Sclene Class Frigates: 10
olympus Class Transports: 30
Artemis Class Gunboats: 50
Research: 2,500
Naval Yards: 2

Strategic Forces

Personell: 80,000
Warheads: Classified
ICBMS: Classified
Tacitical Missiles: Classified
Bio Warheads: Classified
Chem warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified
Fireships: Classified
Bases: Classified
Research: 15,000

Second Holy Empire of Sheepsta

Capital: Chopsu
Population: 543,000,000
Military Population: 3,557,100 (Reserves: 1,532,600)
GDP: 23,690 US$
Total National Budget: 1,286,367,000,000 US$
Total Military Budget: 130,075,050,000 US$ (11% of budget)

Army

Soldiers: 1,500,000
Reservists: 1,500,000
Paratroopers: 100,000
Holy Gaurd: 50,000
Rhea Tanks: 3,000
Tank Crews: 10,000
Ops Jeeps: 4,000
Jeep Crews: 8,500
Ceres APC: 3,000
APC Crews: 10,000
Griffon Rocket: 600
Griffon Crews: 2,500
Basilisk Artillery: 1,000
Basilisk Crews: 4,100
Engineers: 50,000
Medical: 100,000
Research: 5,000
Bases: 67

Air Force
Piolits: 6,000
Support: 22,000
Reserves: 2,000
Zeus F4Bs: 1,250
Eranus F-B32s: 1,000
Apollo B32s: 500
Hermes Attack Helicopters: 1,000
Athanae TRansport Copters: 250
Hippocratic Resuce Chopters: 250
Hestia Transport Planes: 500
Dione Fuel Tankers: 12
Herra Radar Planes: 8
Military Air Fields: 20
Research: 6,000

Navy
Sailors: 90,000
Reservists: 30,000
Piolits: 1,000
Posiedeon Class Carriers: 5
Eranus F-B32s: 900
Leto Class Cruisers: 25
Dionysus Class Desstroyers: 90
Sclene Class Frigates: 65
Themsis Class Hunter Subs: 55
Eos Class Nuclear Subs: 12
olympus Class Transports: 64
Artemis Class Gunboats: 250
Research: 5,000
Naval Yards: 10

Strategic Forces

Personell: 75,000
Warheads: Classified
ICBMS: Classified
Tacitical Missiles: Classified
Bio Warheads: Classified
Chem warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified
Fireships: Classified
Bases: Classified
Research: 10,000

Sheepstan Colony of Greater Lambston

Capital: Port Annoyance
Population: 9,000,000
Military Population: 289,650
GDP: 18,232 US$
Total National Budget: 164,088,000,000 US$
Total Military Budget: 164,088,000 US$ (1% of budget)

Colonial Defence Force

Soldiers: 250,000
Paratroopers: 2,500
Rhea Tanks: 250
Tank Crews: 750
Ops Jeeps: 500
Jeep Crews: 1,000
Ceres APC: 500
APC Crews: 1,600
Griffon Rocket: 50
Griffon Crews: 250
Basilisk Artillery: 250
Basilisk Crews: 1,000
Engineers: 5,000
Medical: 5,000
Bases: 10

Colonial Air Defence
Piolits: 550
Support: 1,000
Reserves: 2,000
Zeus F4Bs: 200
Eranus F-B32s: 50
Hermes Attack Helicopters: 200
Athanae TRansport Copters: 25
Hippocratic Resuce Chopters: 50
Hestia Transport Planes: 25
Military Air Fields: 15

NColonial Naval Squadron
Sailors: 6,000
Leto Class Cruisers: 5
Dionysus Class Desstroyers: 10
Sclene Class Frigates: 10
Themsis Class Hunter Subs: 15
Artemis Class Gunboats: 50
Naval Yards: 3

Sheepstan Strategic Forces

Personell: 15,000
Warheads: Classified
ICBMS: Classified
Tacitical Missiles: Classified
Bio Warheads: Classified
Chem warheads: Classified
Special Forces: Classified
Fireships: Classified
Bases: Classified

The rest is to come later

	03-07-2003 03:34									#49
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Westport's Military:

Population: 901 million
Organization and doctrine of our military is based heavily on the US model.

Army:

2,000,000 active personnel
3,000,000 reserve personnel
250,000 Paratroopers
30,000 Special Forces
Vehicle and Aircraft numbers are classified but are about what you'd expect for a modern, highly mechanized army of the given size.

Navy

1,500,000 active personnel
1,500,000 reserve personnel
18 Aircraft Carriers
48 AEGIS Cruisers
36 Cruisers
72 AEGIS Destroyers
84 ASW Destroyers
100 ASW Frigates
72 Attack subs
18 Ballistic missile subs
24 Cruise missile subs
18 Amphibious assault ships
36 Minelayers
72 Minesweepers
Carriers and subs are all Nuclear powered
Fleet train numbers about 450 ships total.
Vehicle and Aircraft numbers are classified.

Air Force

1,000,000 active personnel
1,000,000 reserve personnel
Vehicle and Aircraft numbers are classified.

Marines

1,000,000 active personnel
1,500,000 reserve personnel
Vehicle and Aircraft numbers are classified.

Nuclear arsenal

800 ICBMs(550 MIRV, 250 unitary)
MIRV payload: 10 200KT warheads
unitary payload: 25MT warhead
1,000 IRBMs(800 MIRV, 200 unitary)
MIRV payload: 3 200KT warheads
unitary payload: 5MT warhead
360 SLBMs(280 MIRV, 80 unitary)
MIRV payload: 3 200KT warheads
unitary payload: 5MT warhead
2,000 nuclear cruise missiles(yields vary, but are no greater than 200KT)
2,500 nuclear bombs(yield varies, from sub-KT to multi-MT)
5,000 nuclear artillery shells(sub to low KT yields)
500 misc. weapons(mines, depth charges, torpedoes, etc.(KT to MT yields))

Total: 19,270 warheads

ABM System
Can handle an arsenal comparable in size to our own. Also capable of hitting satellites in low Earth orbit.

Other
Westport maintains a massive stockpile of Chemical weapons. Westport is also rumored to possess a bioweapons program.
Conditions under which Westport will use WMDs:
1. Invasion of the homeland.
2. Use of WMDs against Westport troops/civilians.
3. Use of WMDs against an ally.
Westport reserves the right to launch a WMD first strike should it be deemed necessary.

OOC: Questions and comments belong in the Disscussion Thread.

Last edited by Grand Moff Tim on 26-07-2003 at 16:54

	23-08-2003 20:28									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

bump.