01-05-2003 03:01									#61
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Uggg, I don't want us to have to invade Belgium...the girls might be tough...

Holland might be fun.

	01-05-2003 03:04									#62
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It wouldn't come to invasion. Bush would just bribe them.

	01-05-2003 03:25									#63
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quote: Article 28 Responsibility of commanders and other superiors             In addition to other grounds of criminal responsibility under this Statute for crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court: (a)     A military commander or person effectively acting as a military commander shall be criminally responsible for crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court committed by forces under his or her effective command and control, or effective authority and control as the case may be, as a result of his or her failure to exercise control properly over such forces, where:   (i)     That military commander or person either knew or, owing to the circumstances at the time, should have known that the forces were committing or about to commit such crimes; and (ii)     That military commander or person failed to take all necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress their commission or to submit the matter to the competent authorities for investigation and prosecution.   (b)     With respect to superior and subordinate relationships not described in paragraph (a), a superior shall be criminally responsible for crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court committed by subordinates under his or her effective authority and control, as a result of his or her failure to exercise control properly over such subordinates, where:   (i)     The superior either knew, or consciously disregarded information which clearly indicated, that the subordinates were committing or about to commit such crimes; (ii)     The crimes concerned activities that were within the effective responsibility and control of the superior; and (iii)     The superior failed to take all necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress their commission or to submit the matter to the competent authorities for investigation and prosecution.

This is from ICC statute (http://www.un.org/law/icc/statute/romefra.htm)



Gentlemen, we have a case.

	01-05-2003 03:26									#64
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Good luck getting Franks in a court room.

	01-05-2003 03:51									#65
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quote: Good luck getting Franks in a court room.

I do not think that will happen and in fact I do not even particulary wish it. I am demonstrating that under international law there can easily be a case against him and that possible charges would not be frivolous.

It will be tough to wage war under international law.

	01-05-2003 05:52									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Sava He might as well. He's got a private jet that is taxpayer funded.

No ****. He's a frigging CINC. Do you have any concept of that? He's got a staff of 20+ bodygaurds. He's got special communication for nuclear war, etc. etc. An ambassador on staff. It is a huge deal.

	01-05-2003 10:08									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Any crank politically motivated suits would never get to trial if for no other reason than the US not giving up the individual in question if they thought the trial unjust.

I agree with this, except the "unjust" bit.

	01-05-2003 10:30									#68
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General Frank's forces could leave Belgium in ruins. Better not piss him off...

	01-05-2003 10:31									#69
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He might just 'Chinese embasy' the whole country.

	01-05-2003 10:35									#70
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I did. It was a favor to Colon. OK?

	01-05-2003 10:57									#71
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The thing that bothers me is that we should not have a double standard. We should not try others for war crimes when we are ourselves guilty if the measure of the war crime were applied to us.

So, assume that some US soldiers did go beyond the pale and did deliberately kill civilians. Franks should be responsible if he initially set up the conditions that permitted such actions, or failed to punish the soldiers at fault, or failed to correct systematic failures that lead to this kind of event.

I do not think that Franks should be charged with aggression. That is a political war crime that should only be reserved to those who had decision making authority. In this case, Bush and Blair.

But, before he is arrested, I think the complaint should be very specific on the war crime incidents, and the failure of command to fix the situation.

I found it amuzing that Ramsey Clark tried to have Clinton arrested for war crimes, particularly for aggression, when the special tribunal to try the war crimes committed in the Yugoslavia breakup wars was established. This simple complaint dramatically changed Clinton's views on the ICC.

I wonder how Clinton got that indictment quashed?

	01-05-2003 11:20									#72
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The far-left on this site never ceases to amaze me...