02-05-2003 00:20									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

even me?

	02-05-2003 00:23									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Alot of interesting things said here and believe it or not for once im NOT going to talk....

*hears gasps in the backround*

I need to think hard about what has been said, continue to add though-I'll be reading it.

	02-05-2003 00:32									#33
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Sava even me?

You did ok, son.

	02-05-2003 00:33									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: even me?

even you.

quote: I need to think hard about what has been said, continue to add though-I'll be reading it.

I hope you do. One of the smartest things ever said, and I don't know who said it, was; "Don't let education interfere with your education."

Take that to heart.

There is a lot more to learn at school than is what actually being taught. Learn to see that and you will definitly find what it is you are looking for.

I would get that computer degree, if for nothing else, just to get a degree. A lot of ppl go through life looking for something, and ignoring what they have. Then, in the end, they still feel like they need something, even if they have everything... eh, Rosebud?

I went into college knowing what I was going to do, and I did it. Hardest thing I ever did. Do I regret it? No, I did something I set out to do. Might I change my mind now, and get another degree to be able to do something I might really love instead of something that just pays the bills and makes me fill usefull? Probably, and guess what; my work will pay for it.

My first love was music. I went to school and got a chemical engineering degree and a music minor. Took me a little longer than others, but college is about self discovery. I also took a lot of environmental courses as well as extra chemistry and civil engineering courses. Why? I wanted to know what that sheit was all about.

Whatever you do make sure that you have fun doing and are doing something that can make a difference in other peoples lives as well as your own.

History+Politics+Computers?

Ever watch the discovery channel? I always like those shows that try and retrace what life would of been like back in the days of yore... The last one was that "how did Ceasar die?" Ceasar was into politics (I think), the did a lot of stuff with computers, and it was definitly history... Maybe something along the lines of archeology could hold a place for all your interests...

	02-05-2003 00:56									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Mark Twain:

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."

Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 02-05-2003 at 01:01

	02-05-2003 01:13									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I quite stupidly applied for the college as a CS major(they have a program where if you are in the CS program you must enter with that declared major as you come on) at my parents behest(thought it was a bad idea and went along)-Im not sure if I CAN take a general course load and the CS thing at the same time-im also not sure if I can switch to a general course-load once I've been accepted to the CS one.

I applied for the engineering school at my university. Same idea as your CS - you come in declared and in that school. after 2 years of struggling, i switched into letters and science and didn't decide I wanted to major in sociology till my 4th year. I took 5 years though, but I took all the required courses for sociology in 2 years.

I'm sure there will be overlap in your general ed between CS and general courses. If you look at the map of your university CS course load, they should tell you what year and when to take the electives which can also be seen as general ed classes.

	02-05-2003 01:26									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

Infantry!

	02-05-2003 01:35									#38
	Tired of ads?

quote: But the thing about real life is this: comp-sci is a very valueable thing. Lots of companies need computer people. My present gf is such a person, and she makes tons of money (and has the added bonus of really liking what she does). I, on the other hand, make decent money while merely tolerating my job. This essentially stems from a basic part of my personality: work sucks. Anything, even if I like it, sucks the instant it becomes mandatory. I think I love History because it was always something I approached as a hobby. I love talking about History with my father or some of my friends, but when it came time to do my Thesis... I wasn't particularly enthused. Based on that, I almost wish I had done comp-sci so I could be making more money while tolerating my job. Did that make any sense? -Arrian

I'm sure alot of people feel the same way, and yes, I'm one of them.

	02-05-2003 01:49									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sava You go to college to really get a general education. It teaches your brain how to learn and think critically. Most likely, you'll find your niche. But don't worry, nobody plans their entire future at 18.

Sava, this is the single smartest thing I have ever seen you post.

Vesayen: You cannot find satisfaction in your life by trying to live up to someone else's expectations. You should carefully consider your parents advice, but it is ultimately you that must live your life. Do what makes you happy!

There are very successful people in every field, the key is doing what you enjoy and doing it well.

Good Luck!

	02-05-2003 02:08									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Alot of interesting things said here and believe it or not for once im NOT going to talk.... *hears gasps in the backround* I need to think hard about what has been said, continue to add though-I'll be reading it.

Please report back with details on your specific course load, course details, etc. Much of this may be available online.

Crack a sweat!

	02-05-2003 03:44									#41
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Okay third attempt to write a reply! (the shorter the better version)

I felt the same as you did when I was at your age.
I am computer science student. I study for 3 years now. I do not like it. I should have studied journalism or something that is creative and maybe has to do with writing.
The courses cover like every aspect of computer science. So much courses I am not interested yet have to do. I am showing signs of "computer science"irsm. My worst nightmare, would be to wake up after the same nightmare and scream: NOOO I AM A NERD/GEEK. Because I am trapped in an endless loop until I run out of memory (mad laughter)

This best describes my situation:

Good luck,
Ata

P.S.: In Computer Science NOTHING works as expected. Just imagine what Windows does to "normal" users and then imagine what it does to "developers". And thats not just with Windows. EVERYTHING is that way. Nothing works right out of the box. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I am tired of that.

	02-05-2003 03:52									#42
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Do what you like. If you get a good graduate degree you will get hired.

Humanities grads tend to lag behind in salary for the first 15-20 years post college, but overtake on the average those in tech professions after that.

	02-05-2003 04:29									#43
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

speakign as a compsci major, if you enjoy the act of coding, theres something wrong with you. enoying the results, or the fact that you work on pure caffiene ar 5 am, and can play civ while mulling over your Data Strucures and Algorithms project, is ok

	02-05-2003 04:39									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hi ,

do whatever you like to do , everything else is just background noise , ......


, join the United States Armed Forces

have a nice day

	02-05-2003 05:39									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I dropped out at 18 and didnt go to University, in some ways I regret it and may have been a big mistake. It certainly holds you back in some careers.

However, I worked hard and ive made my way up the ladder to a moderately well paid job.

Thing is I LOVE MY JOB. I dont get mega bucks and people always tell me I could do better. Im really good at my job (Im a software testing manager) and know (without bragging) I could probably double my salary if I moved the short distance to London.

The thing is I really do like where I work, the job I do and the people I work with. Ive been in bad jobs before.

Suppose all I am trying to say is dont worry about it at the moment, go with your heart not your head. You can always change direction later in life.

Above all I once hear this quote and it certainly stands for me.

"If you find a job you love, youll never work again".

What are your proirities? money, self fulfillment, etc etc. or maybe they are affected by family pressures.

I still say go with your heart.

Hope that helps

	02-05-2003 10:40									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Tons of good advice here, so I'll just add a quick, confirming 2 cents:

The notion that the point of lif is the journey, not the destination, is especially true for college. Take it from a 40-year-old: if you think you have your life sorted, or even know yourself particularly well, at 18 -- you're wrong. Your whole life up until now has probably been framed by fairly confining institutions -- family, compulsory schooling, maybe religion. This is a chance to go out and be yourself by learning who that self is. Don't pass it up, and don't impose limits on yourself because it seems like the right thing to do; you will, most likely, never have a chance to be this free again.

	02-05-2003 10:43									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Tons of good advice here, so I'll just add a quick, confirming 2 cents: The notion that the point of lif is the journey, not the destination, is especially true for college. Take it from a 40-year-old: if you think you have your life sorted, or even know yourself particularly well, at 18 -- you're wrong. Your whole life up until now has probably been framed by fairly confining institutions -- family, compulsory schooling, maybe religion. This is a chance to go out and be yourself by learning who that self is. Don't pass it up, and don't impose limits on yourself because it seems like the right thing to do; you will, most likely, never have a chance to be this free again.

As another forty year old, I have to say this is right on.

BTW, Rufus, even though I am forty, I like to refer to myself as in the teenage years of my thirties!

	02-05-2003 11:22									#48
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I am 37 you old farts.

	02-05-2003 14:07									#49
	Tired of ads?

37? You codger.

	02-05-2003 17:01									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Vesayen, you have no idea how much your situation is similar to mine.


I'm very much the same type of person as you are - I'm very much into computer science but I'm als a news hound, I read history books for pleasure, I watch the science and history channels etc.

The only difference is that I'm actually rather good at programming, though I find much of the work very tedious and self-repetative which bores me.

I also applied for a CS (actually Software Engineering, then System Engineering and then Computer Sciences as my priorities) degree in the Israeli Technological Institute here in haifa, and also applied to the Haifa univeristy.

I was sure I'm going to do this for my entire life, and my relatives all expect me to do this.

But the work I do in school in computer classes is boring tedious programming. Much of the courses will be the same. I'm afraid much of my future job will be the same.


At the same time, I'm offered a stunning opportunity that appeals to the whole range of my interests from IDF, and I'm 99% sure that I'm going to take it.

The decision was made easier by my school promising to fund my degree after / during military, so even if I for some reason my dislike my IDF post, I will still get a degree for free.

The problem used to be bigger, since my previous plan (CS) involved getting a BSc. funded by IDF, and then working as a software engineer in IDF for 6 years.

However, I'm not sure I want to commit to 4 years of studying and 6 years of working in a profession that I may not be 100% sure of.

Especially not when the army offers me a job including everything I like (history, politics, strategy) being an officer, and an opportunity to enlist and get a paid degree later.

I'm pushing on my parents, and though I haven't told them that I'm 99% sure that I'm going to IDF, I think I will do that.

They thing is that we're very poor, and the IDF paying the bill is a huge help. Now my school offers it, and it's great.

BUt another problem is the advance head start that the BSc at such an age, and the 6 years of programming experience for IDF no less, can offer me. PLus my parents already invested 1000's in my future education (the applying fees, all sorts of tests (SAT etc) and courses for these tests.

	02-05-2003 17:26									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Don't do CS if you know you would not enjoy it. Study the stuff you love and continue to consider your career options.

As or a few you mention . . .

professor of history seems a natural but would likely require you to get a doctorate from a top school-- Professors here rarely seem to have taught school-age kids

lawyer-- not QUITE indentured servitude . . .LOL-- I like that I often get paid to think, figuring out the best way to solve a problem or draft an agreement. But there is a fair amount of tedious detail work involved in the practice as well

	02-05-2003 17:45									#52
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

FLubber, cant you retire after like 15 years? (thats if you save your ass off and invest wisely)

	02-05-2003 18:05									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by MRT144 FLubber, cant you retire after like 15 years? (thats if you save your ass off and invest wisely)

rarely (in Canada) -- take calgary as representative. A lawyer at a large or midisized firm, salaried, will be pulling in, about 110,000 by year five, with some bonuses as well based on performance ( and most canadian markets pay less than this). Many corporate counsel jobs pay a bit less and have less expectations regarding workload. Those are good salaries but hardly enough to retire in 15 years routinely. As a senior partner in a big firm you can pull in big money (say over half a million) but most lawyers never attain that level and it would be incredibly rare to get there wuith less than 15 years experience.

The only people I know that retired that quickly either

1. had a good situation going in (wealthy parents and no student debt to pay off

2. Struck it big on a few personal injury cases that they had taken on a contingency fee basis OR

3. Rode the market through a major upswing and got out at the right time

	02-05-2003 18:12									#54
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

But what possible work does a historian / political science major has in the real world?

	02-05-2003 18:47									#55
	Tired of ads?

I answered that on the first page, Siro

	02-05-2003 19:00									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

I know I read your post.

But I won't be a teacher, and I don't know if I'll be able to but in the journalist / commentator bussiness, which is quite tight already in Israel.

	02-05-2003 19:03									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Then you could go for the analyst jobs (if thats fit into your plans), esp. your intelligence services should offer something

	02-05-2003 19:09									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

edited - too easy.


BeBro - work on your reading skills re-read my previous post.

	02-05-2003 19:11									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

But if for some reason I want to leave, or say I retire at 45, where do I go?

	02-05-2003 19:20									#60
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ah, lazy me, didnīt read you whole post

Well, I read in another thread that an army career opens the doors too for a civil career in Israel? Was that you who posted it? (Not sure)

I mean if you retire at 45, you should have enough experience and contacts for the rest of your live - arenīt then some civil jobs where you can use your knowledge?