05-05-2003 16:59									#31
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I know this one...

Sverige = Sve + rige = Realm of the Swedes, or words to that effect. Rige is cognate with Reich if that helps. In Old Swedish the name Svithjod (spelling varies) was also used, where thjod = people, and cognate with Deutsch. According to susning, Sweden is called Swiorice and Sweo-theod in Beowulf and Jordanes (500 AD) calls the people Suetidi.

Where Sve/Svi comes from is unclear, but it might be cognate with the Sanskrit reflexive pronoun sva (Latin: suus/sui, Swedish: sin/sig, German: sein/sich), meaning something like "one's own" or "oneself."

Hope someone got something outta this.

	05-05-2003 17:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Colombia was actually called the United States of Colombia in the middle of the 19th century.

If you are talking about the country in Latin America you are wrong.

It was called the Republic of Gran Colombia if I remember correctly. Gran Colombia was formed by Ecuador, Colombia, Panama and I think Venezuela.

	05-05-2003 17:10									#33
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis Belgium ... Land of the Belgae, a collection of Gallic tribes ... The name is totally artificial though. It didn't exist until 1830.

Is it an artificial country too? Should we partition it between Holland and France?

	05-05-2003 17:10									#34
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France.

Artificial name, direct legacy from the Frank invaders. "Franc" also means "free" is old French, but I think this meaning is centuries younger as the Frank invasion (about 1500 years ago).
The first official occurence of the word France, IIRC, was when Hugues Capet was officially crowned "King of France" in ca 880.

	05-05-2003 17:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by GP Is it an artificial country too? Should we partition it between Holland and France?

The French speaking Belgians are too poor to join France.
The Dutch-speaking Belgians can only feel superior when they compare themselves to the French-speaking ones

	05-05-2003 17:15									#36
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The Flemish got rich now and they're back with a vengeance against previous french-speaking domination by the Waloons

Many flemish want to separate even more, although they have already separated most of their affairs, including their educational system.

Also I'd have to disagree with danubis about Belgium since Julious Ceasar aleggendly said that from all the gaules the belgians were the braviest

edit about the name belgium sure though.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 05-05-2003 at 17:35

	05-05-2003 17:54									#37
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what i meant with 'artificial' was that during the entire period after the fall of the roman empire until the foundation of our nation Belgium did not exist. And the belgae tribes homeland was actually more to the north of our country.

and spiffor, your country has invaded ours several times during the past millenium... and each time we sent your troops home... So we don't have to look to our southern countrymen to feel swell

	05-05-2003 18:05									#38
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Erh Dannubis, a bit o' modesty wouldn't hurt... sure they invaded us numerous times, but our conto of victories isn't that big compared to theirs... okay there's 1302, but in 1304 they had Flanders back already


Btw the Belgae were Celts, Gauls.. perhaps but Gauls were the Celts on the northwest side of the Alps, I'm not sure if this is also applicable to the Belgae.. but if Caesar says so... no problem

Last edited by Traianvs on 05-05-2003 at 18:13

	05-05-2003 18:31									#39
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Germany - land of the plague

After all the deaths from the bubonic plague in the 14th century it was called Germany because there were many germs there.

Indeed.

No - its true.

-Jam

	05-05-2003 18:32									#40
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quote: Is it an artificial country too? Should we partition it between Holland and France?

No problem with the south hooking up to france and we always said, we would welcome Holland becoming part of the flemish

	05-05-2003 18:53									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor "Franc" also means "free" is old French

So you're saying that when Americans renamed french fries to freedom fries, they were actually just translating it properly?

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 since Julious Ceasar aleggendly said that from all the gaules the belgians were the braviest

He said bravest but he meant most barbaric

Edit: Yes, Trajanus, (according to Caesar) the Belgae were one of 3 classes of Gauls, the other two were Aquitani and 'regular' Gauls (the ones you mentioned).

	05-05-2003 19:00									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus So you're saying that when Americans renamed french fries to freedom fries, they were actually just translating it properly?

Now isn't that a classic case of irony?

	05-05-2003 19:24									#43
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis what i meant with 'artificial' was that during the entire period after the fall of the roman empire until the foundation of our nation Belgium did not exist. And the belgae tribes homeland was actually more to the north of our country.

They lived in the North Sea?

	05-05-2003 19:33									#44
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It's so sad that my nationality is named after an Italian navigator.

	05-05-2003 19:49									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Sava It's so sad that my nationality is named after an Italian navigator.

Isn't there another therory too? Don't where I heard it, but I'm pretty sure of it.

	05-05-2003 19:51									#46
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Theory about what?

	05-05-2003 19:55									#47
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About America being named after someone else?

	05-05-2003 19:59									#48
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So it's not named after Amerigo Vespucci?

	05-05-2003 20:04									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Kitschum I know this one... Sverige = Sve + rige = Realm of the Swedes, or words to that effect...

Or Realm of the Svea tribe, as opposed to the Göta tribes and others who were also included in the early kingdom. There were many "tribes" in Viking age Sweden.

	05-05-2003 20:31									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch They lived in the North Sea?

no just north of belgium

	05-05-2003 21:02									#51
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 And on the other side, the name Hellas (Greece) means "Land of Light" according ot one etymology. Then there's also another myth associated with the name Hellas but I'll let you find it out yourselves

Isn't it just Ellas in your language?

IIRC When the Romans took over Greece, they were prejudiced against them and named it that as an insult. I'm not at all sure on this, but was hellas supposed to have something to do with the underworld?

	05-05-2003 21:13									#52
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Yes in Greek it is just Hellas and Hellenes (=Greeks).

I have heard of this story with the Romans too but I'm not at all sure either.

In Greek "Greckos" is indeed an insult and means something like "fraud Greek" someone who is a "bad Greek" doesn't have the "real values of the Hellene". It often means traitor too. But I don't think this particular word comes from the Romans (but it could) I think there was "created" later (during Byzantium) but I'm not sure.


I've never heard of Hellas having anything to do with the underworld.

	05-05-2003 21:16									#53
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Of course the philosophical and intellectual rivaltry that the "Latins" felt against Greeks was (in)famous so you may very well be right about the Romans.

	05-05-2003 21:18									#54
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I thought the word "Greek" and alikes came from the Turkish word for "slave" ?

	05-05-2003 21:22									#55
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No, the turkish word for slave is "Raya".

	05-05-2003 21:25									#56
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Turks called and call Greeks "Younan" and Greece "Yunanistan" because the first Greeks they met were the Ionian Greeks (Ionian -> -> Younan) in Asia Minor.

	05-05-2003 21:27									#57
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Sorry correction: "Greckos" doesn't mean anything in Greek AFAIK. The word I had in mind is "Greckylos".

	05-05-2003 21:28									#58
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Speaking of vespucciland, I am reminded of an Old comedy bit that some of you old timers may remember.
It was quite funny at the time, but it may have been due to the ingestion of massive quantities of drugs. You be the judge.


The Winning of the West.
Waiting for the True White Brother.
a Radio Play in 3 Acts
by the Firesign Theater

Copyright © 1972 by Three or Four Crazy Guys, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction: High Desert, Northern Arizona

Elder #1:

Well, I think it's about time; the way the corn's been growing for the last two or three generations...

Elder #2:

Look at that herd of buffalo, they're ready!

Elder #1:

Everything's living the Great Spirit's Way - in Harmony!

Elder #2:

He'll be here soon...

Elder #1:

The True White Brother is coming Home... Remember what the Great Spirit said? If we did what we were supposed to do and lived according to the plan, White Brother would finish His work in the East and come back to us.

Elder #2:

It'll be nice to have the family together again.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Act 1 - (Music: Flemenco Guitar - Enter the Spaniards)

Conquistidore:

Buenos dias, amigos!

Elder #1:

Hello! You must be the True White Brother!

Conquistidore:

Chore! And Jou muss be the Indians!

Elder #1:

Yes!

Elder #2:

Welcome Home!

Conquistidore:

Welcome to New Spain! This is your new Father, Father Corona...

Priest:

Pox Venucci Ixum! Down on your knees now! Do you recognize what I'm holdin' over yer heads, lads?

Elder #1:

It's a cross; the symbol of the quartering of the Universe into active and passive principles.

Priest:

God have mercy on their heathen souls!

Conquistidore:

What the Father means, is what is the cross made of? Gold! ... Have you got any?

Elder #1:

No.

Conquistidore:

What about the seven cities of gold? Phoenix, Tuscon, Las Vegas...

Elder #2:

Uh... This is gold...

Conquistidore:

What's that?

Elder #1:

Corn.

Spaniard #1:

Hey, corn! Now we can make tortillias!

Spaniard #2:

We've been waiting for this for hundreds of years!

Spaniard #3:

I just invented tacos!

Conquistidore:

So this is all you've got?

Elder #1:

Yes... but, aren't you the True White Brother who's supposed to come and live with us in peace?

Conquistidore:

Chore! Therefore, I claim this rich, verdant pasture land in the name of the Empire of Spain!

Spaniard #1:

Hey, Capitano, the rain, she's a stop to fall, and the corn, she's all dead!

Conquistidore:

Shut up, Vespucci! I claim this stinking desert in the name of the Empire of Spain forever - let's go!

All Spaniards in chorus (to the tune of God Bless America):
God bless Vespucciland! Mmm, mm, mm, mmm...

Priest:

Oh, by the way, you're all Catholics now, Domini, Domini, Domini, God bless you and...

Spaniard #2:

C'mon, Father, nobody in their right mind would live in this stinking desert!

Spaniard #3:

C'mon, Cisco...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Act 2 - (Music: Harmonica playing Oh, Suzanna - Enter the Settlers)


Settler #1:

Boy, I'm tired of pushin' west. How long ago'd we leave Goshen?

Settler #2:

About two hours ago... Ain't we ever gonna stop?

Settler #3:

Quiet down now, boys, the wagon boss is gonna speak.

Wagonmaster:

My fellow settlers! We stand here at the edge of civilization, on the banks of the Mississippi river. Lookin west, at our Destiny! What may appear to the faint-hearted as a limitless expanse of God forsaken wilderness, is in reality a golden opportunity for humble, God fearin' people like ourselves and our families and our children and the generations a-comin' to carve a new life - out of the American Indian!

Settler #1:

Amen!

Settler #2:

Hallelujah!

Settler #3:

You can say that again!

Elder #1:

Welcome, White Brother!

Wagonmaster:

Injuns! Pull the wagons up into a circle!

Elder #1:

Why do you always do that?

Wagonmaster:

We get better reception that way... Mind if I put this antenna up on yonder peak?

Elder #1:

That's our sacred mountain.

Wagonmaster:

This is our sacred antenna. It's shaped like a cross, made of aluminum... Have you got any aluminum?

Elder #2:

We've still got some corn left...

Settler #1:

Hey, corn! Now we can make whiskey!

Settler #2:

We've been waiting for this for hundreds of years!

Settler #3:

I just invented the Tom Collins!

Wagonmaster:

Here, Injun, want some fire-water?

Elder #1:

No, we were warned by our elders not to drink anything that would make us weak or silly.

Settler #1:

HA! HA! - Put it in their well!

Elder #1:

That's not a well, it's the eye of the Holy Serpent Mound on which you're standing.

Settler #2:

It's a beaut!

Elder #2:

No, it's a mound.

Settler #2:

And right purty too... Can you move it?

Elder #1:

But why?

Wagonmaster:

Railroad's comin' through - right now!


(Sound: Locomotive braking to a halt, steam hissing and bell clanging.)

Passenger #1:

Why we stoppin, we in Goshen yet?

Conductor:

Can't go no further; this here's Injun territory!

Government Agent:

Well, then, it's Treaty Time!


(Fanfare, Hail to the Chief.)

Government Agent:

My Fellow redskins; on behalf of the Great White Father in Washington and all the American people, let me just say that we respect you savages for your native ability to instantly adapt and survive in whatever God forsaken wilderness we move you to... out there. Sign here.

Conductor:

They did it!

All Passengers:

Yee Haw! Yippee! Hooray!!!


(Repreive fanfare, Hail to the Chief.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Act 3:

Elder #1:

There's no reason to complain. I mean, it's not so bad out here. We still have our People and our Ceremonies and the Sun and the Moon and the Sand and the black stuff coming out of the ground...

Government Agent:

The black stuff coming out of the ground? Civilization, HO!!!


(Fanfare, Gerschwin's Manhattan Rhapsody.)

Elder #1:

Oh, it's nice out here in the desert. No rain, no crops, no White Brother...


(Sound: Tour Bus braking to a halt, air brakes hissing and door opening.)

Bus Driver:

All out for Fort Stinkin' Desert, last Indian reservation for two thousand miles; get 'em while you can!

Tourist #1:

Isn't it beautiful...

Tourist #2:

Oh, lookit them Indians, they're a funny dark color!!

Tourist #3:

Gopher Dan, ye pesky redskin, which way's Goshen?


(Sound: Gunfire.)

Bus Driver:

Hi, there, colorful replica of America's past, when is the 'exiting-in-its-primitive-splendor' snake dance going to take place?

Elder #1:

Well, it's usually in August, but with all of our children off at Indian School, there's no one left to do the ceremonies....

Young Indian:

Hi-ya, Pop!

Elder #1:

Hello, Soaring Eagle! It's good to have you back from school!

Young Indian:

Oh, come on, call me Eddie! I'm an American now!

Elder #1:

What have they been teaching you?

Young Indian:

Just what we need for a better life! French Horn, Itallian, water polo...

Government Agent:

Yes, at the Custer Memorial Indian School, Eddie's one of our Prize students. We're giving him away next week!

Elder #1:

Oh, my White Brother...

Hippie:

Hey, man, don't let 'em bring you down, now. There's a lot of young people in this country just like myself who really know where the Indian's at, and don't worry, pretty soon we're all gonna be out here on the reservation living like Indians, dressing like Indians and doing all the simple, beautiful things that you Indians do... Got any peyote?

Tourist #1:

Hey, how much is that necklace you'r wearin?

Tourist #2:

Isn't it amazing how they survive in this stinking desert!

Tourist #3:

Ya got any scalps?

Tourist #1:

Lemme git a shot of you and your squaw.

Tourist #2:

Hey, you know how to do the war dance?

Tourist #3:

Yeah! Let's see the war dance.

Tourist #1:

Dance.

Tourist #2:

Dance!

All Tourists: (with gunfire)

DANCE!!!
Bus Driver:

All right, folks, fun's over! Back on the bus!

Elderly Female Tourist:

Where's little Billy Joe?

Elderly Male Tourist:

He's in that run-down outhouse over there, Mama.

Elder #1:

That's our Sun alter.

Government Agent:

Well, Indian, it just goes to show the obvious need to preserve our priceless national herritage. The government is turning your home into a national monument!


(Fanfare, America the Beautiful.)

Politician:

It behooves me, upon this historic occassion, to dedicate the Stinking Desert National Indian Monument and Cobalt Testing Range!

Government Agent:

Civilization, HO!


(Sound of nuclear bomb being detonated)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Epilogue

Elder #1:

Well, it's about time; there's been no corn growing for the last few generations, the buffalo are gone and there's no one left to live in harmony with...

Elder #2:

I wonder where we went wrong?

Elder #1:

Oh, well, let's just keep to the life plan.

Remember what the Great Spirit said, "Follow the peaceful way.."

The True White Brother is bound to come...

Director:

All right, Indians, get ready!

Production Assistant:

Winning of the West, the massacre, take four!


(Sound of movie producer's clap-board)

All Indians:

Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop!

	05-05-2003 22:47									#59
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quote: If you are talking about the country in Latin America you are wrong. It was called the Republic of Gran Colombia if I remember correctly. Gran Colombia was formed by Ecuador, Colombia, Panama and I think Venezuela.

No, I'm not wrong. At independence it was part of the Republic of Gran Colombia. After it dissolved around 1830, Colombia went through a bunch of name changes including the United States of Colombia before settling down on the present name, Republic of Colombia.

	05-05-2003 22:51									#60
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BTW I found this about Greckos.


The name Graecos (Greek)

The name Graecos (Greek) that the West uses to identify the Hellenes is not a latin word, as many mistakenly believe, but a Greek one, because it was used for the first time to identify the members of the first Hellenic Amphictionia (that was composed by the Thesprotians - Molossoi - Chaones that lived in Epirus, Western Greece).The use of the name Graecos is mentioned by Aristotelis:

"...and she was not there forever, but after the cataclysm of Defkalion, which occurred in the Hellenic area, in fact, in the ancient Hellas, which was around Dodoni, and it changed many times the flow of Acheloos river. In that area live the Selloi and the ones that were once called Graecoi and are now called Hellenes..."
Aristotelis Meteorologika, I, 14
Philosopher, 384-323BC

The first Hellenes with whom the Latins came in touch were the Hellenes of Epirus and so by the common amphictionic name Graecos they named the rest of the Hellenes as Graecous (Grekos), too. The name Graecos was used during the christianic years by the Hellenes for self-identification neglecting the name Hellinas that was considered as non-christianic and was avoided. The previous analysis is logical because for the same reason the Arabs call the Hellenes Younan which means Ionas, since the Iones (Asia Minor) were the first Hellenes that came in touch with the Arabs.