06-05-2003 08:46									#31
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2.7 million jobs gone since Bush took office.

	06-05-2003 09:04									#32
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che: I'm reporting you to Earth First!. May God have mercy on your soul.

	06-05-2003 10:18									#33
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quote: 2.7 million jobs gone since Bush took office.

Let's see, is that the fallacy of petitio principii, or post hoc ergo propter hoc?

	06-05-2003 10:55									#34
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I, too, tend to agree that Sept. 11 would have been difficult to prevent. But for those of you who feel the same way, here's a question or three:

1) Suppose the administration had excellent evidence that terrorists were planning to use some kind of hijacking scheme in an act of terorism. Suppose further that the administration decided to do nothing about airport security even though that's well within its jurisdiction. Would you find them culpable?

2) Suppose it turns out that one branch of the administration -- say, the CIA -- knew these guys were potential terrorists, but inter-agency rivalries kept them from sharing that information with the FBI, the INS, the FAA, etc. Would you find the administration culpable?

3) Suppose -- and there's already some evidence for this -- that the US asked another government (Malaysia) to spy on an Al-Qaeda meeting happening in their country. Suppose that country gave you a report on the meeting, including a full list of participants. Suppose it then turned out that some 9/11 hijackers were at that meeting, and nevertheless subsequently were allowed to enter the US. Would you find the administration culpable?

	06-05-2003 23:40									#35
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1) Yes.

2) No. Much as I dislike this admin, they can't be held accountable for decades of inter-agency hostility and rivalry.

3) Maybe. Depends on if the admin alerted the proper authorities about the hijackers, or if it was just a lower-level bureaucratic snafu.

	06-05-2003 23:49									#36
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quote: I think attacking Bush on this front is only appropriate if he tries to use 9-11 to his advantage somehow.

Why, sava, whatever would give you that impression? I
mean, with the Republicans holding their convention in NYC in early september, I don't think you're being fair in implying that the Bush Administration would ever try to use 9/11 to their advantage.

	07-05-2003 00:46									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow quote: 2.7 million jobs gone since Bush took office. Let's see, is that the fallacy of petitio principii, or post hoc ergo propter hoc?

no, it's fact

	07-05-2003 02:15									#38
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It is a fact that so many jobs have been lost during the administration.

It is opinion to attribute those job losses to the administration of Bush.

We could just be feeling the fallout of Clinton's management for all that we know.

	07-05-2003 02:22									#39
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 It is a fact that so many jobs have been lost during the administration. It is opinion to attribute those job losses to the administration of Bush. We could just be feeling the fallout of Clinton's management for all that we know.

or it could be cyclical economic pattern. to lay the blame on anyone for whats natural is ridiculous.