06-05-2003 21:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by August Borms My personal reasons for taking drugs: Alcohol: it tastes good, and it's an ancient (and fun) tradition to get drunk. I did start drinking alcohol trough peer pressure though; my parents really began pushing me to start drinking beer/wine when I was around 15y. Weed: It's like an appetizer before dinner for me. Shrooms: I don't know why I take shrooms. It's fun, but not fun-fun, I only take them when I'm alone. It's a bit like trying to induce sleep paralysis or lucid dreaming...

alcohol tastes gross

Jon Miller

	06-05-2003 22:04									#32
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Pure alcohol (or fairly pure alcohol, e.g. Bacardi 151) tastes like burning, and is not very pleasant.

	06-05-2003 22:07									#33
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hmm

I should add to this

Beer is gross

mixed drinks are for the most part gross (not tried any I like, but have only tried a few)

a shot of rum is not too bad, but I think that is because you swallow it before you taste it

Jon Miller
*doesn't drink

	06-05-2003 22:17									#34
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i agree. alcohol has varying levels of grossness. to me the least gross form is beer, and specificly heineken. although i dont drink too often so i dont have a large palette. The worst by far is vodka. how anyone drinks that is beyond me.

	06-05-2003 23:03									#35
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I have worked with drug and alcohol abusers for much of my life. The reasons people take these substances into their bodies is because they are seen as a solution rather than a problem. Often the "solution" becomes the next ptoblem regrdless of the original motives. The "addictive personalities" thing is a joke. Take enough of some drugs and YOU become addicted regardless of your previous personality. Of course some types of people are prone to use them in the first place so I guess you could say that their personality leads them in that direction.

I have seen some of the best people on earth ruin their lives with drugs and alcohol. None of them ever thought that they had an "addictive personality". But when they dissapear into mental institutions and a life-long regiment of treatment and despair, we that remain free of substance addiction like to pretend that it will never happen to us.

There is a real life out there. Don't ruin it with drugs. BTW, we are having tornadoes in this area so this will be my last post for a few days. I am sure that some people here will tell everyone about all the glories of drugs and alchohol but that is to be expected at Apolyton. All I have seen in 54 years is a trail of destruction.

	06-05-2003 23:30									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I have worked with drug and alcohol abusers for much of my life. The reasons people take these substances into their bodies is because they are seen as a solution rather than a problem. Often the "solution" becomes the next ptoblem regrdless of the original motives. The "addictive personalities" thing is a joke. Take enough of some drugs and YOU become addicted regardless of your previous personality. Of course some types of people are prone to use them in the first place so I guess you could say that their personality leads them in that direction. I have seen some of the best people on earth ruin their lives with drugs and alcohol. None of them ever thought that they had an "addictive personality". But when they dissapear into mental institutions and a life-long regiment of treatment and despair, we that remain free of substance addiction like to pretend that it will never happen to us. There is a real life out there. Don't ruin it with drugs. BTW, we are having tornadoes in this area so this will be my last post for a few days. I am sure that some people here will tell everyone about all the glories of drugs and alchohol but that is to be expected at Apolyton. All I have seen in 54 years is a trail of destruction.

Excellent post, Lincoln. Finally, something we agree on. Stay safe.

	06-05-2003 23:51									#37
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I smoked marijuana because I was curious. I can honestly say it is one thing I am glad I have experienced, and on rare occasion, continue to experience.

Alcohol I drank because I wanted to fit in and party. Really I think it sucks, and drink lightly on rare occasion. Allthough good wine can be a nice compliment to a good meal.

I smoked cigarettes because of peer pressure. I did enjoy them, mostly it was the habit, I think I enjoyed.

Of all the drugs I miss the most, it is and probably will always be nicotine.... because I know now, that I cannot smoke even one cigarette... DOH... just writing about it makes me fiend, and I havent smoked in over 8 months!

Caffiene I try to control my intake, I know it can cause arrythmia, and loses it's punch if taken/drank every day, so I usually reserve the coffee or espresso for the days I have to go to work, but didn't get much sleep the night before.

The other drugs I tried I tried out of curiosity. Acid was too dark, and after a bad trip I couldn't enjoy it again, allthough I tried. Shrooms were OK but not great, and definitely not worth the money or time, or risk. Ecstasy I probably will not do again because it really is overrated.

	06-05-2003 23:57									#38
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because life sucks, then you die.

some just choose to die faster.

i, on the other hand, don't want strange and odd chemicals to do the job for me--but others don't have such qualms.

	07-05-2003 01:25									#39
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Drugs help you attain a higher state of mind, man.

	07-05-2003 02:28									#40
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Lincoln:

quote: The "addictive personalities" thing is a joke.

It helps to explain the differing levels of dosage required to induce addiction in different people. It can also explain the role of genetics in alcoholism as people can inherit these addictive personalities.

	07-05-2003 02:33									#41
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Why do people eat chocolate?

	07-05-2003 02:35									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed because life sucks, then you die. some just choose to die faster.

..or have more fun while they're waiting to die!!

	07-05-2003 04:16									#43
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There have been studies that have shown that kids who were abused as kids had trouble getting the correct levels of seratonin or something or other. I cannot remember the exact brain chemical, but I think it is seratonin. Basically what it comes down to, is people who were abused have trouble feeling as good as those who weren't. So they are more likely to take things to make them feel good.

	07-05-2003 05:19									#44
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect Does that explain why i lick my balls too?

Geez, must be nice being able to give yourself a BJ!

	07-05-2003 06:00									#45
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Lincoln -

quote: I have worked with drug and alcohol abusers for much of my life. The reasons people take these substances into their bodies is because they are seen as a solution rather than a problem. Often the "solution" becomes the next ptoblem regrdless of the original motives.

You've based your conclusion on the people you've worked with, not the millions who don't need "help". But yes, they see it as a solution to a problem they already have. You want to reduce drug addiction, ban alcohol and work on improving parenting. Alcohol drives up drug addiction rates because so many addicts grew up with alcoholic parents. Oh yeah, alcohol prohibition doesn't do anything but increase crime just as drug prohibition.

quote: The "addictive personalities" thing is a joke. Take enough of some drugs and YOU become addicted regardless of your previous personality.

Nonsense, there has to be logical explanations for why one person becomes an addict and another does not - and personality is a factor. And using enough of a drug doesn't produce an addict, I've used more than my share of drugs and never got addicted. Also, some people have both an addictive and non-addictive personality - manic depressives swing back and forth between the addictive and non-addictive personality in a matter of hours. Why? Because of brain chemistry. But if brain chemistry can be such a profound determinant of personality, then why couldn't brain chemistry produce an addictive personality too? Ever hear of obsessive/compulsive disorders? That's an addictive personality in it's extreme. I find your claim about working with addicts dubious given your comment, what exactly do you do with addicts?

quote: Of course some types of people are prone to use them in the first place so I guess you could say that their personality leads them in that direction.

Yes, the same reason one person goes out and tries dangerous activities like rock climbing while others don't shows we have different personalties and some are more inclined to experimentation with danger than others. Thank God for the thrill seekers, they put into action the ideas of the bookworms...we owe both our standard of living...

quote: I have seen some of the best people on earth ruin their lives with drugs and alcohol. None of them ever thought that they had an "addictive personality".

Damn Lincoln, I've known alcoholics who didn't think they were alcoholics. So what? Besides, I didn't say ALL addicts have addictive personalities, but having an addictive personality certainly increases the chances of addiction.

quote: But when they dissapear into mental institutions and a life-long regiment of treatment and despair, we that remain free of substance addiction like to pretend that it will never happen to us.

The evidence supports our conclusion, roughly 80 million Americans have used illegal drugs. How many ended up in mental institutions needing life long treatment? Way below 1%,
hell, way below .01%!

quote: There is a real life out there. Don't ruin it with drugs.

There is a real life out there. Don't ruin it playing football.

quote: BTW, we are having tornadoes in this area so this will be my last post for a few days. I am sure that some people here will tell everyone about all the glories of drugs and alchohol but that is to be expected at Apolyton. All I have seen in 54 years is a trail of destruction.

Just as some will announce how horrible drugs are inspite of the fact most people who use them don't ruin their lives. The irony is that I don't regret using drugs, but I do regret playing too much basketball - that ruined my knees. I suppose we'd expect a doctor who works in the ER to have a biased view of guns given so much of their time is spent dealing with gunshot wounds. So I'd expect the same line of reasoning from people who work with addicts, but my experience and the experiences of millions of people are more valid for us than the experiences of addicts. I knew a person who died young from alcoholism, but that doesn't mean the rest of us need to avoid alcohol based on what he did to himself.

	07-05-2003 06:22									#46
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But If you'd miss something inportand in your body and narcotics would cease problems with that or supply it, you could cure your problems - with narcotic. The bigest problem is with so called normal citisen. What could hurt "normal" citizen should be outlawed.
IIRC marihuana is effective against anorexy and stress. Coca is nice to cure chronical tireness problems. Or at least lessen them. And so on.
Anfetamin could be nice kickstart, but you must rest properly, and do security counter measures against adiciton.
(I don't think narcotics are "pure cure", but some narcotics are nice add on to real cure)
Bigger problem is with alcohol and caffe.

BTW is kava kava outlawed too?

	07-05-2003 06:55									#47
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I do drugs, but I don't mess with things that are addictive. I like to smoke pot, and hash (when I can get it), and take mushrooms and acid. But other things I shy away from, even alcohol for the most part, simply because I don't want to take anything that I'd have trouble living without.,

	07-05-2003 06:59									#48
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quote: I knew a person who died young from alcoholism, but that doesn't mean the rest of us need to avoid alcohol based on what he did to himself.

True, but what about other substances with greater potential for harm? What do you feel the role of the state is to regulate these substances?

Secondly, we also need to consider what effects our own use of alcohol will have on someone who is an alcoholic. If it helps him, as a friend, we should not drink in front of him.

	07-05-2003 07:37									#49
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 True, but what about other substances with greater potential for harm? What do you feel the role of the state is to regulate these substances?

Berzerker's a staunch Libertarian. I'd wager a fair amount of money that I can pinpoint the exact level of state regulation that he favors.

quote: Secondly, we also need to consider what effects our own use of alcohol will have on someone who is an alcoholic. If it helps him, as a friend, we should not drink in front of him.

I'll certainly agree there, though to some extent it is also my alcoholic friend's job to avoid situations in which he knows that alcohol is going to be present. If he's going to a New Year's Eve party, then he needs to understand that the party's not going to change just because he's there. Friendship goes both ways -- we ought to make an effort not to tempt him, and he ought to make an effort to avoid temptation.

RE addictive personalities, they certainly exist -- it's no mistake that most of the people I know who have problems with excessive use of drugs also have problems with excessive gambling, excessive playing of video games, etc.

	07-05-2003 07:56									#50
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I'm not really sure what hashish is to be honest. I always figured it was like pot but stronger. Is that correct?

	07-05-2003 07:57									#51
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That's what I always thought too.

	07-05-2003 08:04									#52
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Three pages of drug talk and still no Zylka? He better be banned again or I'm going to be very disillusioned.

	07-05-2003 08:16									#53
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Obiwan -

quote: True, but what about other substances with greater potential for harm? What do you feel the role of the state is to regulate these substances?

The courts would have jurisdiction to deal with fraud and false advertising, i.e., quality control failures.

quote: Secondly, we also need to consider what effects our own use of alcohol will have on someone who is an alcoholic. If it helps him, as a friend, we should not drink in front of him.

Gotta agree with Loinburger there, and you of course. But just as I would not want my friend to have a substance problem nor contribute to it, I wouldn't want him thrown in a jail with violent criminals to "help" him stop.

	07-05-2003 10:14									#54
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Hash is the oil (IIRC) of the plant, that's extracted and processed into a sweet and wonderful chunk of dingy brownish blackishness that gets you high as a kite. It's sort of like resin.

	07-05-2003 10:21									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'm not really sure what hashish is to be honest. I always figured it was like pot but stronger. Is that correct?

It is what Felch said. Do you consider it a drug?

Do you consider scunc a drug?

Or are all THC products not drugs?

	07-05-2003 10:41									#56
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I drink alcohol because it tastes good, it relaxes me, I don't have an alcohol addiction, and there aren't very serious health risks when drinking in moderation.

I drink caffeine because it tastes good, it gives me an energy boost when I need it, I'm mildly addicted to it, and there are insignificant health risks.

	07-05-2003 11:19									#57
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OK now someone should create a thread entitled: why don't people do drugs?

	07-05-2003 11:20									#58
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as for alcohol, there have been too many studies proving the healthful effects of alcohol for me to ignore. At one point in my life while in the service I was drinking too much. But I was able to curb my drinking, and now only drink a couple of beers a week.

As for hashish, I don't know enough about the drug to say if it should be classified as a drug. But it seem weird to legalize marijuana and leave hashish illegal. My state has a legalization vote last year that failed. I don't think they ever addressed hashish.

	08-05-2003 13:56									#59
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Alot of people do Prozac and Ritalin because it is pushed on them by doctors who make a nice commission.

Then once they are on, they're hooked. They need prozac, even though I have never seen a depressed person stay out of their depression for more than six months while on prozac. After that six months they become afraid to get off, or they change to some other anti-depressant.

Kids take ritalin because their parents don't want whip their ass.

	08-05-2003 17:08									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident as for alcohol, there have been too many studies proving the healthful effects of alcohol for me to ignore. At one point in my life while in the service I was drinking too much. But I was able to curb my drinking, and now only drink a couple of beers a week.

Those effects are very minimal. A single baby aspirin a day is more beneficial.