08-05-2003 22:16									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Glad you finally noticed this Speer. This why most minorities are Democrats, and is why Dems get elected... Because a lot of ppl are as ignorant as MRT and actually believe this BS. I am of the opinion that if minorities actually looked at their canidates platform they would probably not vote for them. Repub.s ideals are far more aligned with the view point of most minority societies, and have a lot of good minorities in their party and in elected or appointed offices. We, republicans, don't need token minorities because we don't give things to people who haven't earned them... Unlike democrats. Maybe its is that attitude of the rebulicans that get them overlooked by minorities. We a stern and strict, and all around boring. I guess the majority of minorities just want a fancy show with lots of lights and smoke... Wait, I think Bush just gave them one, though it didn't involve a slut and a cigar so I guess they will overlook it. Blah...

thats it, im ignorant! whens the last time the republicans actually stood up and said "we need to help minorities". Apathetic "do right for yourself" isnt helping minorities.

Who wants to end affirmitive action? republicans. who has out in the open racists in the party? republicans. You cant win the hearts of the people if you alienate them. like the republicans do.

flash has nothing to do with why minorities tend to democrat. its the overwhelming racism of the republican party that forces them to vote democrat.

	08-05-2003 22:31									#32
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quote: thats it, im ignorant

Sorry to offend MRT, I like you and didn't mean to insult you... Though, in a way, I proved your point about republican be apathetic

quote: You cant win the hearts of the people if you alienate them.

Oh, so Affirmative Action doesn't alienate?

quote: . its the overwhelming racism of the republican party that forces them to vote democrat.

Thats a better argument.

quote: Apathetic "do right for yourself" isnt helping minorities.

So the dems, who want to help minorities, are belittling them because the feel they need help. Ya know, teach a man to fish....

	08-05-2003 22:39									#33
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How is the Republican party doing anything to "teach a man to fish"? pleeeeeasssssseeeee Republican Party = Corporate Party with a mixture of hypocritical Social Authoritarians

	08-05-2003 22:42									#34
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The Republican message seems to be more of "let's leave them alone so they can teach themselves fishing," while the Democrats just say "here, have a fish." Ideally, we would have a system that really "taught them to fish," and although the Dems don't have it, at least they seem to be trying.

	08-05-2003 22:46									#35
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cyclotron

unfortunately it's
Democrat; Tweedledumb
Republican; Tweedleevilselfservingwh0re

	08-05-2003 22:50									#36
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OK, so the repubs are not teaching anyone how to fish...

cyclo is right.

quote: although the Dems don't have it, at least they seem to be trying.

IMO, "seem" is the operative word.

I don't see what Gray Davis is doing as trying to teach them to fish. Slashing education funds and increasing prison funds... Well, at least he is building for their (the minorities) future, they'll have a roof over there head soon enough...

One thing is for sure; it is hard to set up good programs when you have two parties bickering over how to do it. It is even harder when you belong to a party that relies on there being poor and oppressed ppl to give you votes...

	08-05-2003 22:51									#37
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quote: Democrat; Tweedledumb Republican; Tweedleevilselfservingwh0re

That's a good one Sava

	08-05-2003 22:51									#38
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Gray Davis is a putz, you shouldn't judge an entire party based upon someone who isn't even a major party leader.

	08-05-2003 22:52									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Japher That's a good one Sava

I try.

	08-05-2003 22:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Oh, so Affirmative Action doesn't alienate? So the dems, who want to help minorities, are belittling them because the feel they need help. Ya know, teach a man to fish....

i think in general that minorities would rather be helped than have nothing at all.

	08-05-2003 22:59									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Japher IMO, "seem" is the operative word.

Well, I certainly think that honest and well-meaning failure is better than not trying at all. Perhaps it is more appearances than reality, but there is a lot more reality to it than republican programs.

quote: I don't see what Gray Davis is doing as trying to teach them to fish. Slashing education funds and increasing prison funds... Well, at least he is building for their (the minorities) future, they'll have a roof over there head soon enough...

All politicians in all parties, when faced with the massive budget crisis that we have, will start cutting. That's not really indicitive of party lines. Davis, in fact, did a lot for education in previous years, though I wish he would step up to the plate instead of being so wishy-washy. I'm no Davis fan, but he was better than Bill Simon. *shudder*

quote: One thing is for sure; it is hard to set up good programs when you have two parties bickering over how to do it. It is even harder when you belong to a party that relies on there being poor and oppressed ppl to give you votes...

That smacks of conspiracy theory... kind of like the far-left "Bush wants to rule the world" stuff. Do you honestly think that an entire political party wants to keep people poor? You have valid points, but this is not one of them.

This is why, IMHO, we need to oust the 2-party system in favor of a more parliamentary system, while retaining USA style legislative detachment and power. But that's just my pipe dream.

	08-05-2003 23:03									#42
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quote: Do you honestly think that an entire political party wants to keep people poor?

Haven't solved that one out yet. I doubt it is an entire political party, and I think a small handful who support such programs actually realize what such "helping hand" programs really result in...

quote: You have valid points, but this is not one of them.

Wow!

quote: we need to oust the 2-party system in favor of a more parliamentary system, while retaining USA style legislative detachment and power

Lets start a new political party

	08-05-2003 23:05									#43
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I agree... down with the 2 party system!!

	08-05-2003 23:08									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Haven't solved that one out yet. I doubt it is an entire political party, and I think a small handful who support such programs actually realize what such "helping hand" programs really result in...

I look at San Francisco as a case study. Homeless people there are a big problem, and there's a lot of constant debate and some action as to what they should give poor people to stop the problem. Obviously, they have not come up with a good solution yet, but I'm convinced that they are genuinely concerned with the problem.

quote: Wow!

?

	08-05-2003 23:10									#45
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both parties are just corporate whores

Jon Miller

	08-05-2003 23:20									#46
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quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 I look at San Francisco as a case study. Homeless people there are a big problem, and there's a lot of constant debate and some action as to what they should give poor people to stop the problem. Obviously, they have not come up with a good solution yet, but I'm convinced that they are genuinely concerned with the problem.

actually this is a great example. there was a measure on the ballot a while a go dubbed care not cash. what it aimed to do was end the system of handing out money to homeless people on a monthly basis for them to live and replace that with care programs like shelters and food centers.

	08-05-2003 23:42									#47
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I like Gavin Newsom, he is a good seed for the Democrats... Only if Feinstein and Willy Brown wouldn't endorse him I might like him more.

He is running for mayor, and will probably win. I will just be happy to get Brown out of there.

I was looking over his web site for his compeign and I can't seem to find what party he is attributed too. Though with all the dem support I am sure he is a dem too... He has a good track record, writes some good bills... Really, I think he is a no party kind of guy.

	09-05-2003 02:42									#48
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Republicans have a lot of racists? What about Senator Byrd? he's a democrat and was a member of the KKK. both parties got some nuts.

Anyway, I've always suspected liberals as trying to keep people poor and what not (i blame the baby boomers for legitimizing drug use and pre-marital sex) but generally this attitude comes from some suspicious people... I've read articles by Reggie White where he mentioned liberals as trying to keep minorities impoverished.

Still, I think that most democrats got good intentions but they are foolish. Social welfare programs and what not (whether they work or not) aren't that horrible of an idea but combined with the social liberalness of the democrats, the democratic agenda only brings down the poor, keeping our communities filled with drugs.

Personally, I don't think the republican party is perfect but the social conservatism alone is enough to help fix some of these problems. Maybe we can have a more populist Republican party in the future? One that is more lower middle class oriented.

anyway...

Was it Rufus who mentioned the point about people voting with their money? That is probably true in some cases (though I dont think that Republican economic policies would bring any harm to the inner city) but most people I know are more concerned with social issues than economic ones. Fundamentalist Baptists and Muslims here in philly are undoubtedly more anti-homosexual and anti-drug than are pro-welfare. religious people (or even those who try to be religious) are usually more concerned with social issues than their wallets.

Though I think the Democrats do realize this hence the last two mayors of Philly, now governor Ed Rendell and John Street (who beat a republican by only 1%-2% of the vote) who are both fairly conservative for democrats. They are more like the moderate social conservative union democrats. Mayor Street (I know his son by the way) is supposedly pretty religious and has been open to public school privatization and been an ardent supporter of the war on drugs.

If the Democratic party of Philly put a drug-legalization, pro-gay marriage, etc. candidate on the ballot, maybe, just maybe, the democratic party will fail in philly.


thanks

	09-05-2003 02:55									#49
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quote: Anyway, I've always suspected liberals as trying to keep people poor and what not (i blame the baby boomers for legitimizing drug use and pre-marital sex) but generally this attitude comes from some suspicious people... I've read articles by Reggie White where he mentioned liberals as trying to keep minorities impoverished.

I find this terribly absurd, but it is good to know that these are the sort of absurd notions many consevatives like to sell, and explain the depths of their hatred for "liberals", which I find to be greater than the hatred for "conservatives" many "liberals" have (all of them a racist corporate dogs!)

Liberals do not seek to make minorities poor, anymore than conservatives seek to make them poor. As fo yet, both sides have failed to come up with right answers (where are the conservative Utopias? Mississippii? Alabama? maybe its SC?)

quote: Was it Rufus who mentioned the point about people voting with their money? That is probably true in some cases (though I dont think that Republican economic policies would bring any harm to the inner city) but most people I know are more concerned with social issues than economic ones.

If that is so, why do we have the Log Cabin Republicans, and most highly Catholic Hispoanics vote for liebral dems? Voting patterns show that Rufus is correct as far as pointing out that, out of the populations that vote, economic matters are as if not more important than culture war ones.

Socail ills are the symptoms of the modern system of politics and economics, not the cause.

	09-05-2003 04:14									#50
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GePap:

Like I said it comes from some suspicious people... like I said, Reggie White, the former Philly Eagle and Green Bay Packers linebacker who is now a (baptist?) preacher... I dont think democrats are plotting evily... i just think they genuinely want to help but are misguided...

in some ways, its reminiscent to some black nationalists years ago who wanted white liberals to keep away and stop claiming to help them because these nationalists felt that white liberals were not doing anything constructive

	09-05-2003 04:27									#51
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quote: Just because people think GWB is an idiot doesn't automatically make them Democrats

Bottom line, Speer.

It may surprise you, but just because people belong to a certain group, they don't automatically agree on everything.

	09-05-2003 10:28									#52
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Of course. There are many democrats I often feel like slapping.