13-05-2003 00:12									#61
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Overly sentimental hogwash! You only need one to live and there are people waiting on transplant lists.

Sentimental? More practical, really. Kidneys are a good thing to have a backup of. Dialysis is not good times.

	13-05-2003 00:17									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Of course!

No problem, then.

quote: By the way, demanding someones physical self is far different from demanding their monetary wealth...

It's all just property when the person's dead. Granted, the body of a deceased relative probably has a great deal more sentimental value than, say, said relative's piano, but it's not like there are "sentimentality exemptions" in estate taxes. If somebody's opposed to estate taxes across the board, then I see nothing inconsistent in also opposing mandatory (or opt-out-for-a-fee) organ donations. It's the hypocrisy of insisting that other people can have their property taxed while insisting that your own property is exempt that I take issue with.

	13-05-2003 00:17									#63
	No, I really don't see any difference between the two concepts in this regard. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by loinburger Kidneys are a good thing to have a backup of. Dialysis is not good times.

Do you have any diseases I should be made aware of before I start harvesting bone marrow and what not from you?

	13-05-2003 00:21									#64
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Yeah, I gave myself malaria several years ago, just in case anybody got any bright ideas about doing some "live organ donations"... Call it insurance, if you will.

	13-05-2003 00:22									#65
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Drat.

	13-05-2003 00:52									#66
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treatment of the dead has been a spiritual thing for thousands of years and often is independant of religion.

It is only respectful to abide by the wishes of the family.

That being said I do wish more people would donate their organs. But it is a matter of personal liberty.

	13-05-2003 00:54									#67
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Thieving is thieving.

Just because it's organs being stolen doesn't make it right.

	13-05-2003 00:55									#68
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I do have some liquids I do like to donate to women though

I'm just a giving person. I give everything of myself to others.

	13-05-2003 00:57									#69
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You're luck to have found somebody who likes the taste of urine.

	13-05-2003 05:19									#70
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quote: It's the ultimate disgrace to personal freedom to say that my body is the property of the state upon my death.

Sava:

I agree with your premise, but not with your conclusions, as to why mandatory organ donations are wrong after the person is dead.

Can one still have personal freedoms after one is dead?

	13-05-2003 06:10									#71
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If it's a question of priorities then I think in this case, your organs are more worth to the community (saving a kid for example) then your personnal right to let them getting eating by maggots.
But that is just my opinion of course...

	13-05-2003 06:26									#72
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what about doctor's digging up graves to do medical experiment? Does that disgust you guys?

I'd say sure why not to both issues.

(I plan to cremate myself so the state better be on my case to get my **** before I go out in flames)

EDIT: tee hee. A specific way of spelling bypasses the censorship here in poly.

	13-05-2003 06:31									#73
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I hear ya

cremation is the way to go

I need to do a will one of these days. But even I am not so morbid to look forward to doing a will. But I need to make sure I'm cremated and scattered over the breasts of Reese Witherspoon.

	13-05-2003 06:31									#74
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Before they cremate you everything is long gone and then they stuff you up with sand...lot's of it

	13-05-2003 06:36									#75
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if the government sends a highly specialized team that will infiltrate into my chamber and retrieve my organs out before I am going to be ashes, I really wont give a rats ass.

But otherwise, I'm too lazy to do the whole signup process.

I did check yes to "I do not care if my organs will be yanked out when I am dead from a vehicle accident" in my license, but its meaningless cause you need an official eyewitness that says I checked this myself.

	13-05-2003 06:40									#76
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Like I said, here it's the other way around. Personally I don't give a toss what happens to my body, I just don't hope it will put a financial drain on my children/spouse/parents..
For all I care they dump me somewhere , the only demand I have is to wait until I AM dead
-
BTW: here the situation now is that if you want to 'donate' your body to science you actually have to pay for it

	13-05-2003 06:45									#77
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Personally, I agree with organ donation, but I'm not so sure about the mandatory system. People have concerns with abuses, particularly since organs are so valuable.

	13-05-2003 06:56									#78
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Personally, I agree with organ donation, but I'm not so sure about the mandatory system. People have concerns with abuses, particularly since organs are so valuable.

True, but then it would be stealing, not donating which is a whole different debate IMO.

	13-05-2003 07:02									#79
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Well, a mandatory organ donation with an opt-out from the individual while alive, or from the family once the individual is dead, seems to be the best solution ot me. It'll sure raise the supply of organs, since all the lazy bones like me won't do rats about it, and those who take offense will quickly go opt out.

	13-05-2003 07:51									#80
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I, too, agree with the mandatory harvest with op-out idea. If people really want to save their bodies for whatever reason, they just have to fill out the forms.

With the current system, you get too many apathetic people who really don't care about their bodies post-mortem, but who are too lazy to or just never think of signing up for organ donation.

But that's just me.

	13-05-2003 08:05									#81
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Cinch : That's exactly what I thought. Thank you for saying it better than me

	13-05-2003 08:12									#82
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Anyone good with Google too find out hw the situation is in various countries?

	13-05-2003 08:21									#83
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According to the Yahoo encyclopaedia, in France, it is an simple opt-out system from the living individual or his family. However, surgeons most often ask the family an explicit agreement..
However, to give his organs to scientific research, one has to opt in.

	13-05-2003 11:37									#84
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This is clearly a dead end. There will never be enough organs available, with all potential consequences. The main source of valid organs are the car accidents of young people; hopefully this source will not increase significantly.

Whatever pseudo moral pressure are put on people, the prospect of shortage will not change. We have better to finance other ways of cure.

	13-05-2003 13:10									#85
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IIRC they are already or almost able to grow livers in a labo

	13-05-2003 14:10									#86
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Interestingly, it appears that the problems only start when you are dead.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3013049.stm

I didn't know that cremating bodies produced such pollution problems. Next thing they will be telling us is that organ recycling through donation is environmentally friendly.