19-05-2003 08:02									#31
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I would like to see the results of a poll asking whether or not some are not interested in this game because we got such a crappy start. I'm guessing a bunch of people feel this way. Of course, the poll would never work, because most players that have left are not even lurking anymore.


Dominae

	19-05-2003 08:36									#32
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One of the most influential? I challenge you to find a single advisory I have made that has been moved upon!



But here's the part people seem to be stumbling around: I know they HEAR me, whether they think I'm sane or not. All this bickering about "Getting more involved...." The answer then seems to be: POST! Simply tossing your vote in every now and then isn't the answer. We could have seven active posters debating an issue, and six agree one way and the other alone.... and twenty people who have never said a word throw in votes to the lone debater's point of view, and voila, the issue goes that way. I would probably say "Who the hell are you people, and WTF are you thinking?"

I have *absolutely no problem* with how the government has been running, aside from the bickering and complaining. I think we're doing a fine job of making the best of a dismal starting position, and I think our long-term potential looks just fine, with proper diplomatic work- which I think Togas is more than capable of leading.

I for one DO NOT wish to see votes on every little thing. Our consuls make decisions because we entrust them with that power. If you don't like what they're doing, fine, call a vote of recall. Otherwise, make your opinion heard, they'll read and note, and then move accordingly. There isn't a democracy in the world where the President takes a poll as to whether or not he can take a leak, and we don't need polls for every little detail here. Dom's right- half of the team thinks we need to go whomp CDG a good one, and the other half is looking towards Knights for that answer. I think the Consul is COMPLETELY correct for then going forward with his own decision- because the team itself has no clear opinion! If we took a poll and it broke down 55/45, that'd be a mighty sad thing to take action on.

Please consider this a big for how things are going, and a big to the idea of polls for anything more than broad-ranging decisions.... and if those polls don't show a clear victor, then let the Consuls do their job!

	19-05-2003 09:00									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon One of the most influential? I challenge you to find a single advisory I have made that has been moved upon!

I feel your pain...

	19-05-2003 16:30									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I would like to see the results of a poll asking whether or not some are not interested in this game because we got such a crappy start. I'm guessing a bunch of people feel this way. Of course, the poll would never work, because most players that have left are not even lurking anymore. Dominae

hi ,

where is Arnelos , he has a way of bringing people back , keeping them intrested and getting involved , .....

Arnelos where are you when we need you

have a nice day

	19-05-2003 17:48									#35
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quote: All this bickering about "Getting more involved...." The answer then seems to be: POST! Simply tossing your vote in every now and then isn't the answer. We could have seven active posters debating an issue, and six agree one way and the other alone.... and twenty people who have never said a word throw in votes to the lone debater's point of view, and voila, the issue goes that way. I would probably say "Who the hell are you people, and WTF are you thinking?"

The thing is, there are people like me who are lurkers but read most of the posts in this forum and have opinions, but don't have that many ideas of their own and realize it would be annoying to simply say "I agree with ___" in every thread. Polls, however, show the opinions of everyone, even those that don't have unique ideas and simply agree with the logic of others.

	20-05-2003 01:28									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I would like to see the results of a poll asking whether or not some are not interested in this game because we got such a crappy start. I'm guessing a bunch of people feel this way. Of course, the poll would never work, because most players that have left are not even lurking anymore.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but this isn't the reason I'm unactive. I just don't have time to be active in three DGs, especially if I'm a minister; so, while I follow the forum, I don't look at the save and I don't spend too much time examining the map or the diplomatic situation, so I don't have much to contribute. If I had the time, I'd definitely be more active here, but I can't always fit all three of my DGs in, and I choose the PTW and SP DGs over this one. Believe me, I like this demogame, but I like the other ones even better.

	20-05-2003 01:49									#37
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 The thing is, there are people like me who are lurkers but read most of the posts in this forum and have opinions, but don't have that many ideas of their own and realize it would be annoying to simply say "I agree with ___" in every thread. Polls, however, show the opinions of everyone, even those that don't have unique ideas and simply agree with the logic of others.

PLEASE, DO post simple "I agree with ____" posts. First, they are nice way to increase one's postcount. Second, they are not annyoing at all - the dynamics of this game does not allow for proper polling about anything but the most major long-term impact decisions. "Discussion" threads actually serve the purpose of informal polls. Third, even by just repeating that part of the "logic" of someone else you agree with, you are contributing a lot - as you express your opinion that is being heard that way. Generally, there are at least two different "opinions" - by "just" supporting one of them, you are helping! It is easier for Consuls and Ministers to "feel" the will of the team then, to feel which parts/decisions/proposals are being widely accepted and which ones are arguable.

Polls have one significant problem - the options. It is often difficult to formulate options allowing EVERYBODY to precisely express his/her stance by voting for one of the options, while actually ensuring a usable, applicable result. Often, the choices involve multiple interdependent decisions - by expressing your support for this or that in a brief post (even if it was not a full-fledged "option" in a poll), you help those that might wish to eventually post a poll formulate the options properly and understandably.

If all you have to say is "I agree" or "I disagree", post it! PLEASE! We'll have to put up with the fact that the fast pace of ISDG demands us to voice our opinions more through posts and less through polls.

	20-05-2003 02:23									#38
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack PLEASE, DO post simple "I agree with ____" posts. First, they are nice way to increase one's postcount. Second, they are not annyoing at all - the dynamics of this game does not allow for proper polling about anything but the most major long-term impact decisions. "Discussion" threads actually serve the purpose of informal polls. Third, even by just repeating that part of the "logic" of someone else you agree with, you are contributing a lot - as you express your opinion that is being heard that way. Generally, there are at least two different "opinions" - by "just" supporting one of them, you are helping! It is easier for Consuls and Ministers to "feel" the will of the team then, to feel which parts/decisions/proposals are being widely accepted and which ones are arguable. Polls have one significant problem - the options. It is often difficult to formulate options allowing EVERYBODY to precisely express his/her stance by voting for one of the options, while actually ensuring a usable, applicable result. Often, the choices involve multiple interdependent decisions - by expressing your support for this or that in a brief post (even if it was not a full-fledged "option" in a poll), you help those that might wish to eventually post a poll formulate the options properly and understandably. If all you have to say is "I agree" or "I disagree", post it! PLEASE! We'll have to put up with the fact that the fast pace of ISDG demands us to voice our opinions more through posts and less through polls.

I agree.



In all honesty, this is pretty much what I was trying to say above. Even a simple "Yeah, he's got a good point, I especially agree with ......" is nice.

	20-05-2003 07:13									#39
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As a person who just posts maybe 2-3 posts a week and lurks, I have to say, ISDG is the most boring DG game in poly. Sorry guys but that is the fact. And as long as it remains boring, people wont participate much. Then councils will be frustrated because there wont be much input from the citizens and burden is left to them. And it just ends up being a chore of work to do for such few people and maybe thats why tensions are coming from.

I don't know what it is about ISDG that makes it boring, its not the pace, cause PTW moves just as slow... but PTW is alot more entertaining.. and even that has come to a grinding halt ever since the bug.

Guys dont forget, that most of us join DGs and visit poly to have fun (or kill time). And if its not fun, they wont come.

Well You guys work this out, meanwhile I'm going to play ACDG as the Hives.

	20-05-2003 19:34									#40
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack PLEASE, DO post simple "I agree with ____" posts. First, they are nice way to increase one's postcount. Second, they are not annyoing at all - the dynamics of this game does not allow for proper polling about anything but the most major long-term impact decisions. "Discussion" threads actually serve the purpose of informal polls. Third, even by just repeating that part of the "logic" of someone else you agree with, you are contributing a lot - as you express your opinion that is being heard that way. Generally, there are at least two different "opinions" - by "just" supporting one of them, you are helping! It is easier for Consuls and Ministers to "feel" the will of the team then, to feel which parts/decisions/proposals are being widely accepted and which ones are arguable. Polls have one significant problem - the options. It is often difficult to formulate options allowing EVERYBODY to precisely express his/her stance by voting for one of the options, while actually ensuring a usable, applicable result. Often, the choices involve multiple interdependent decisions - by expressing your support for this or that in a brief post (even if it was not a full-fledged "option" in a poll), you help those that might wish to eventually post a poll formulate the options properly and understandably. If all you have to say is "I agree" or "I disagree", post it! PLEASE! We'll have to put up with the fact that the fast pace of ISDG demands us to voice our opinions more through posts and less through polls.

hi ,

excellent

a PM can also do wonders , so can a chat session

sometime the consuls feel left alone on every single thing , its nice to get a pm then to say " i support you " or so , .....

and since so many people dont agree with this or that , well post it , pm it , talk about it , a problem can only be solved if the people can see it , therefore it has to be brought to attention firts , ....

Together we ( Everyone ) can Achieve More , ....

there are many people who of site dont agree with this or that , come forward then on the next election , ....

have a nice day

	21-05-2003 04:37									#41
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack PLEASE, DO post simple "I agree with ____" posts. First, they are nice way to increase one's postcount. Second, they are not annyoing at all - the dynamics of this game does not allow for proper polling about anything but the most major long-term impact decisions. "Discussion" threads actually serve the purpose of informal polls. Third, even by just repeating that part of the "logic" of someone else you agree with, you are contributing a lot - as you express your opinion that is being heard that way. Generally, there are at least two different "opinions" - by "just" supporting one of them, you are helping! It is easier for Consuls and Ministers to "feel" the will of the team then, to feel which parts/decisions/proposals are being widely accepted and which ones are arguable. Polls have one significant problem - the options. It is often difficult to formulate options allowing EVERYBODY to precisely express his/her stance by voting for one of the options, while actually ensuring a usable, applicable result. Often, the choices involve multiple interdependent decisions - by expressing your support for this or that in a brief post (even if it was not a full-fledged "option" in a poll), you help those that might wish to eventually post a poll formulate the options properly and understandably. If all you have to say is "I agree" or "I disagree", post it! PLEASE! We'll have to put up with the fact that the fast pace of ISDG demands us to voice our opinions more through posts and less through polls.

i agree with civman

	21-05-2003 05:46									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Zero As a person who just posts maybe 2-3 posts a week and lurks, I have to say, ISDG is the most boring DG game in poly. Sorry guys but that is the fact. And as long as it remains boring, people wont participate much. Then councils will be frustrated because there wont be much input from the citizens and burden is left to them. And it just ends up being a chore of work to do for such few people and maybe thats why tensions are coming from. I don't know what it is about ISDG that makes it boring, its not the pace, cause PTW moves just as slow... but PTW is alot more entertaining.. and even that has come to a grinding halt ever since the bug. Guys dont forget, that most of us join DGs and visit poly to have fun (or kill time). And if its not fun, they wont come. Well You guys work this out, meanwhile I'm going to play ACDG as the Hives.

Nailed it.

I've been SEVERELY RL-constrained of late, even to the point of not being in the Strat forum enough ( ), but g*ddamnit I check the GS and the ISDG forums every day.... but somehow, I don;t get as much of a thrill, or feel as compelled to post, here, as I do in GS when something (ANYTHING... know the feeling?) is going on.

And that bums me out.

I don;t think it's so much the government structure... I'm with F-P and Dominae, I think the "management team" has been doing extremely well technically, given the context.

I just wanna get PUMPED, and I ain't.

By comparison (and I hope the GSers don;t mind I'm disclosing this): Several weeks ago, at an, errr, 'interesting' point in the PTWDG, I made it clear that I was available 24/7... Sir Ralph called me and woke me up at like 4am, Germany to NYC, and IT WAS GREAT!!!

Sorry I've had to jump in and out of the forum of late, but I'm gonna obsess over this, and hopefully help make the team, the game, and the fun, rock solid.

	21-05-2003 06:11									#43
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And like I said a few posts back... the ISDG feels more like a job than a game. People are taking it waaay to seriously and that only undermines others who just want to have fun.

Again, I'm not saying I don't enjoy it, I personally love it, but I can undestand why others like Zero and Theseus don't.

	21-05-2003 07:40									#44
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Part of it not being "fun" is that we are playing people that have little or nothing to do with Poly. In the PTWDG, everyone knows everyone else. Then, at least for team Roleplay, there are other things going on, for the purposes of roleplaying. This helps keep things fresh and interesting.

Another thing is that when (atleast for me) I knew that things were in good hands, I didn't participate as much as I should have. I felt that I wasn't needed to be here that much and that I could catch up at a later time, or find things out from the Chatroom (which I'm on almost everyday).

Also, I know that from the SPDG, there is nothing like a War to boost player participation, especially during the turnchats. But we want to keep away from any wartime entanglements for a bit longer...

E_T

	21-05-2003 10:11									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus By comparison (and I hope the GSers don;t mind I'm disclosing this): Several weeks ago, at an, errr, 'interesting' point in the PTWDG, I made it clear that I was available 24/7... Sir Ralph called me and woke me up at like 4am, Germany to NYC, and IT WAS GREAT!!!

Maybe we can have F-P call us at 4am shouting some hellish rant about going to war with CDG... I'm sure that would motivate more than one of you

	21-05-2003 10:33									#46
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Theseus, your presence is appreciated (at least by me), even if you're screaming for blood in every post...

I agree with E_T about us not "knowing" any of our opponents. Another factor is that this game is very competitive. We want to win, pure and simple. This is not much of a change for me, because Gathering Storm is pretty competitive too. We still have fun in that team, though. And we can still have fun here too.

We have not been too serious of late; we need that seriousness to remain competitive. What we also need is some non-seriousness, to boost morale. Master Zen has the right idea, if you ask me. Let's all try to learn something from his inane posts.


Dominae

	21-05-2003 11:03									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae We have not been too serious of late; we need that seriousness to remain competitive. What we also need is some non-seriousness, to boost morale. Master Zen has the right idea, if you ask me. Let's all try to learn something from his inane posts.

Inane? INANE? You dare call my posts inane?

You think I don't spend hours in my own twisted realm, scheming, plotting for some grand plan of world domination? to have CDG and GCA kissing our Numidian ass? Oh it's not a job, IT'S AN ADVENTURE!

You might look at my avatar and think, Zen has no heart. He is just evil. He makes no sense. He is crazy if he thinks we will do his "Evil Plans". But I have a heart. It is there somewhere, cold and shriveled but there nonetheless. And it saddens me to think that all I am is a crazy diplomat.

But in 100 turns I will have my revenge. People will look back and say. You know what? Zen was right. He always is He predicted there was land to the west from the beginning. He prediced the immortal threat since the day we found CDG. At the time his words were mindless ranting. But in retrospect they were right.

Who knows... maybe we'll regret not founding Goldville one day too...

	21-05-2003 11:33									#48
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Q.E.D.

	21-05-2003 11:40									#49
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Please tell me when it's time to act serious again...

	21-05-2003 11:44									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Please tell me when it's time to act serious again...

Will do...

	21-05-2003 15:37									#51
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::ring ring ring::

"GOOD MORNING, SOLDIER!"

"wha....who is this?"

"DO YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW, A ELUCIDIAN IS CRYING OUT FOR YOU TO KILL THEM?"

"wha the fu-"

"SON, THERE ARE PERSIANS TO KILL. YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF THAT BED AND POST POST POST! THE TIME IS RIGHT!"

"Okay, which poster am I about to ki-"

"SAVE THAT ATTITUDE FOR THE BOARDS, SON. NOW GET UP AND GET MOVING!"

	21-05-2003 21:29									#52
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List of people I will never give my phone number to:

Fried-Psitalon
Sir Ralph
panag...

	22-05-2003 01:27									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen List of people I will never give my phone number to: Fried-Psitalon Sir Ralph panag...

hi ,

what , ya still use that outdated tech , ....

anyway one thing thats missing is encouragement from people when some people , consuls or not , have a good idea , ....

have a nice day