19-05-2003 11:55									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Attachment: anispas.gif
This has been downloaded 114 time(s).

	19-05-2003 12:01									#32
	Re: A GOOD Political Ideology poll. Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Odin Social Ideology: Radical: Believe extreme social change is needed Liberal: Believe moderate social change is needed Moderate: Believe little social change is needed Conservative: Want to maintain status quo Reactionary: Want to return to past policies, such as segregation, etc.

Isn't it a bit confusing? Ok, it's clear that social change is involved in this option. But to which way?

	19-05-2003 12:51									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

Democracy
Social Democracy
Liberal

Democracy: I think your definition of Republicanism leads to too much power for the individual and too much focus on 'personality politics'. In my perfect society, the leaders of the country would be faceless, or even unknown, merely carrying out the policy desires of the population.

Economic: The Economic category could do with some clarification. I was swithering between choosing Social Democracy and Regulated Capitalism, but the 'US Style' put me off. I wouldn't want a system like the US where the main tendancy is for most of the wealth to go to the already rich, although I think the 'capitalist urge' is a good motivator to work hard. You really need to say whath the regulatory systems in 'Social Democracy' are before we can make a fair choice.

Social: I voted liberal, but I think this depends on where you are standing, and which society you want to change (or not). I would want to change US society more than I would change European society for example. It is also a little unclear whether one is allowed to consider economic social change, since this is presumably covered by the 'Economic' section.

	19-05-2003 14:40									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Leo:

quote: Could a European comment on the whole "Vote for Parties" thing?

Why do you need the Euros to comment on it? We have it right here in Canada.

Sure, we don't have Proportional Representation, but our parliamentary system is essentially party-based, not individual based.

Examples:

Party-Based: Prime Minister is the head of the party with the most votes (or seats won, in a PR-less country like Canada)
Individual-Based: President is voted for in a seperate election.

PartyBased: House of Commons is pretty much the be-all, end-all of... everything.
IndyBased: House of Commons, Senate, and Cabinet all wield certain amounts of power.

******
In my opinion, there are at least three different types of Representative Democracy (actually, I'm sure there are many more, but I'm not educated enough to break 'em down properly):

1. Euro-style PR Party-Based: You vote for the party which best reflects your views as a whole.

2. Canadian RepByPop Party-Based: You can do it like the Euros, OR you can simply vote for the MP that you think will serve your particular riding best.

3. Vote for the Congressman that will serve your riding best, and the President who will match your views as a whole.

(I'm sure someone can put it more eloquently and/or interestingly than that, but oh well, what's typed is typed...)

*************

Personally, I kinda like the way the Euros do it, becaue it prevents some of the candidates from simply dangling pleasing area-specific projects in front of their ridings, which may cause the people to stray from their ideologies.

	19-05-2003 14:41									#35
	Put an end to popups!

Mine:

Democratic (love the ideology-based! down with cult of personality!)
Social Democracy (capitalism yes, corporatism no)
Liberal

Sounds about right.

	19-05-2003 15:44									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Democracy
Social Democracy (I would want regulated capitalism, but more regulated than the US, like environmental checks and the like)
Moderate (tempted to go Liberal, probably between the two)

Is Democracy supposed to me more democratic than a Republic? I thought the only difference was in a Republic you elect the head of state, and a Democracy was anything where the leaders are elected? I chose Democracy because I don't want an elected head of state, as I think it puts too much power in the hands of one person.

	19-05-2003 15:58									#37
	Tired of ads?

Democracy
Social Democracy
Liberal


Guess no big surprise there...

	19-05-2003 16:01									#38
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by cinch 1. Euro-style PR Party-Based: You vote for the party which best reflects your views as a whole.

Not all of Europe uses PR. The UK still elects MPs, and then the party with the most (in coalition if necessary) creates the Government.

While I would like proportional representation, as then we might get one or two MPs from minor parties (Green, Socialist, etc) and more Lib Dem MPs, I am a but wary of having coalition governments the whole time, and I am a I like the idea of a person representing that area. I presume under PR that is inpossible, having someone represented from one area. How does it work in practice? Do you elect so many MPs from each party depending on how many votes they get, and the Party chooses which ones?

	20-05-2003 01:15									#39
	Remove this text

well this still doesnt work for me.

Economics - to follow on urban ranger - there are at least two issues here - the extent of economic regulation/govt control over industry and income/wealth distribution.

Myself i tend to be "regulated capitalist" on control issues - I see some areas where US status quo is too statist, and some where it fails to address market failure. But I tend to be much farther to the left on issues of income distribution. Though i sometimes call myself a social democrat, i suppose "left wing third way" would be closer.

On social simply talking about change is not clear - id like to see a number of changes, but some are neither in a "libertararian" diiection nor are returns to the past. IE while i suspect most here will identify "social change" with either diversity or libertarian change, i dont see any room for communitarian change - unless you identify it with the past, which i do not.

Political - there are lots of different clever ideas about constitutional structures within democracies, but for the most part arguments about them are practical more than ideological id say. A better contrast for democratic vs republican would be the broader extent to which you favor or oppose governmental structures that limit or support popular soveriegnty - thus prop representation vs first past the post, electoral college vs direct election, party primaries vs party structure selection of candidates, etc.

	20-05-2003 01:27									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Drogue:

quote: While I would like proportional representation, as then we might get one or two MPs from minor parties (Green, Socialist, etc) and more Lib Dem MPs, I am a but wary of having coalition governments the whole time, and I am a I like the idea of a person representing that area. I presume under PR that is inpossible, having someone represented from one area. How does it work in practice? Do you elect so many MPs from each party depending on how many votes they get, and the Party chooses which ones?

Don't the Germans have a system that's half-PR, half RepByPop? That is, you elect people for your riding, but the parties can also gain seats on top of that, according to their percentage of the national popular vote. A hybrid system like that seems quite attractive.

	20-05-2003 01:31									#41
	Put an end to popups!

Another:

Anarchy
Communism
Radical

	20-05-2003 01:33									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: well this still doesnt work for me.

No ****, sherlock?
As always, the poll is over-simplistic.

	20-05-2003 01:33									#43
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That is true. It was also used in Wales and Scotland for their assemblies IIRC. Does seem quite a good idea.

	20-05-2003 02:53									#44
	Tired of ads?

Democracy
Social-Democracy
Liberal

	20-05-2003 03:09									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Democracy Social-Democracy Liberal

same here. the only sensible choice

	20-05-2003 04:32									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by cinch Leo: Why do you need the Euros to comment on it? We have it right here in Canada. Sure, we don't have Proportional Representation, but our parliamentary system is essentially party-based, not individual based. Examples: Party-Based: Prime Minister is the head of the party with the most votes (or seats won, in a PR-less country like Canada) Individual-Based: President is voted for in a seperate election.

Thanks. In that case, I prefer party-based.

	20-05-2003 04:45									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I don't like this poll, but I'm not going to argue against it 'cause then Stefu is going to pressure me into finishing my own (different) three-axis political test...

	20-05-2003 05:43									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oligarchy, Capitalism, Conservative

	21-05-2003 02:02									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Republican
Regulated Capitalism
Conservative

so many Anarchists.

We should lock them in a room with each other.

	21-05-2003 02:07									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

socially I'm a reactionary but i don't want no segregation...

most conservative republicans would also be reactionary as they don't want to sustain the status quo that includes such things as abortion.

BAD political poll! boh!

	21-05-2003 02:22									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The 3 R's...

Republicanist
Regulated Capitalist
Reactionary

also I dont think that's a too good definition of Republican vs Democratic forms of government. Technically, democratic gov'ts are ones where the people vote on every issue and not for representatives (which would be a republic). Republics, in the traditional sense, also tend to have a federal system of government with power divided between the central gov't and the provinces.

	21-05-2003 02:36									#52
	Put an end to popups!

quote: most conservative republicans would also be reactionary

Restoring society is not 'reactionary,'

Too many negative connotations with that word.

	21-05-2003 02:52									#53
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Obi-Wan:

But restoring society is def not conservative (meaning conserving the status quo)

	21-05-2003 06:33									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

My democracy choice is different than republic because a Democracy has a lot more referendums than a republic, basically more of "Pure Democracy" type, like ancient Athens or many towns in New England. Republicanists believe in a more "elite" government, democrats believe in a more pure form of democracy.
Lord of The Mark got it right on the mark.

	24-05-2003 01:07									#55
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: But restoring society is def not conservative (meaning conserving the status quo)

Be careful. By this definition the Democrats favouring abortion on demand become conservatives.

	24-05-2003 01:13									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Be careful. By this definition the Democrats favouring abortion on demand become conservatives.

Yes. The only way of being "radical" in this issue would be to make abortion mandatory

	24-05-2003 01:13									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Republicanist, Regulated Capitalist, Moderate.

People asking that government control things, best watch what they wish for.

	24-05-2003 01:27									#58
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Democracy, Communist, Radical