21-05-2003 04:28									#31
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Genetically Africans have a greater diversity than the other races combined. Because they share a relativley common clime they have certain superficial similarities imposed, i.e., very dark skin and curly hair.


Hindus, Pakistanis, Persians, Arabs and Jews are considered Caucasians.
One reason that orientals have epicanthal folds is that they have a thicker layer of subdermal fat, which is an adaptation to their northern asian origins.

	21-05-2003 04:33									#32
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Well, now you know what to search for. Happy Googling.

	21-05-2003 04:34									#33
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Dr. Strangelove:

That's still odd especially considering the vast superficial differences between a Swede, a Hindu, and a Korean.

	21-05-2003 04:50									#34
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Albert S, this is a sore subject for me.

Despite being descended from NW Scotland ancestors, I HAVE GOT EPICANTHIC FOLDS!

No wonder I always wear glasses to disguise them. _ suspect my family have got some Inuit blood mixed in somewhere.

	21-05-2003 04:54									#35
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quote: No wonder I always wear glasses to disguise them

Why? What's wrong with epicanthic folds?

Cruddy: the difference in appearance of Koreans/Japanese/Chinese is generally overstated and mostly due to different dress and bearing than anything else...

	21-05-2003 04:59									#36
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Cruddy:

my grandmother got them too

	21-05-2003 05:03									#37
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Boshko:

Cantonese do look different than Manchu and Han though and they are all chinese.

	21-05-2003 05:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Dr. Strangelove: That's still odd especially considering the vast superficial differences between a Swede, a Hindu, and a Korean.

Well, that just goes to show how superficial you are.

	21-05-2003 05:18									#39
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Chinese is more of cultural concept than racial one, same with American.

The purest race is the one that reproduces through incests. But that's off topic.

	21-05-2003 05:19									#40
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Strangelove:

but aren't there dozens of gene strands that create such traits as hair colour and eye colour and all that? i mean, i would think that a blue eyed blonde swede would have all these strands be different from a dark skinned, black haired hindu...

	21-05-2003 06:15									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Chinese is more of cultural concept than racial one, same with American. The purest race is the one that reproduces through incests. But that's off topic.

"Chinese" used to be a cultural concept. But over time it did become racial.[well, certainly more racial than "American" as a concept] And now, with the incorporation of certain - ahem - outlying areas it is being made out to be a cultural concept again.

But that aside: Caucasians may find that there is much more variation among themselves than among Asians: but prob this is due to perspective. Chinese people who've never been out of China certainly end up equating everyone from Xinjiang to India to Scotland, while being able to pick out fine differences between people from individual Chinese provinces.

	21-05-2003 07:19									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Last that I heard all non-Africans have been traced to a group of Homo sapiens who migrated out of Africa by crossing the Red Sea into Yemen about 70,000 years ago.

The problem is that aboriginal sites in Australia keep popping up and appearing to be 70,000 to 100,000 years old, which keep confusing everyone (the last I heard, the oldest official aboriginal site found was 47,000 years old)

	21-05-2003 07:23									#43
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GPM - off topic, but your signature is wrong.

It was one million, not 12 billion, and less than a decade. (The entire NASA budget for the 60's wasn't much over 12 billion).

And there are reasons to not use a pencil in an orbiting spacecraft. (graphite's electrostatic properties, and debris from sharpening, for two.)

	21-05-2003 07:36									#44
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CHINESE ROOTS LIE IN AFRICA, RESEARCH SAYS

ROBERT LEE HOTZ, TIMES SCIENCE WRITER

Most of the population of modern China--one-fifth of all the people living today--owes its genetic origins to Africa, an international scientific team said today in research that undercuts any claim that modern humans may have originated independently in China. In the search for human origins, in which political beliefs and pride of place can figure as prominently as fossil evidence, the genetic findings dramatically illustrate the intricate weave of prehistoric migrations and human evolution, the scientists said.
Published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the study is the product of the Chinese Human Genome Diversity Project, a consortium of seven major research groups in the People's Republic of China, and the Human Genetics Center at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. It was funded by the National Natural Science Foundation of China. Detailed Genetic Profiles Created The group used the advanced tools of DNA analysis to create detailed genetic profiles of 28 of China's official population groups, which comprise more than 90% of the country's population, to better understand the roots of complex chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension. By exploring the genetic relationships that exist today among so many of China's ethnic groups, the team also shed light on the ancestry of people in East Asia, who, like everyone, carry in every cell of their bodies genetic hints about their evolutionary history and the journeys of their forebears. "The contribution of this study is very significant to the literature of human evolution," said Ranjan Deka at the University of Cincinnati, who studies human genetic variation. "The findings also will have a lot of bearing in the study of genetic diseases." Until now, other researchers said, few studies of human population genetics have taken such a comprehensive look at China.

Stanford University geneticist Luca Cavalli-Sforza, an authority on human genetic variation, said, "It is very encouraging to see a cooperative effort of this magnitude beginning to take place in this most important part of the world, and they are to be warmly congratulated for it." In all, the Chinese government today recognizes 56 ethnic groups. Just one of them, the Han, makes up the bulk of the population, comprising about 1.1 billion people. The other 55 ethnic minority groups encompass about 100 million people spread throughout China.

To study the diverse genetic inheritance of such an enormous population, the researchers used a special set of genetic markers called microsatellites. These extremely short chemical segments of DNA mutate very rapidly. That allows scientists to use them as signposts to mark how populations diverged or merged over time, reconstructing their evolutionary journey through time and across the continents to their contemporary abodes. The scientists looked at 30 such microsatellite markers across 28 of the population groups in China and then compared the pattern to 11 other population groups around the world. The researchers demonstrated that the peoples of northern and southern China cluster into distinct regional genetic populations that share inherited characteristics. Those groups, in turn, can be divided into even smaller, separate genetic groups. Yet, overall they all are descendants of a single population group that may have migrated into China from the south eons before humans learned to forge metal tools or use a written alphabet, the new research suggests.

"Populations from East Asia always derived from a single lineage, indicating the single origins of those populations," the researchers said. "It is now probably safe to conclude that modern humans originating in Africa constitute the majority of the current gene pool in East Asia," they said. Although few scholars today dispute the idea that the earliest ancestors of the human species evolved in Africa, there still is considerable debate over how modern humanity evolved from its more primitive ancestors.

http://www.saxakali.com/Saxakali-Pu...ions/china1.htm

	21-05-2003 07:51									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat GPM - off topic, but your signature is wrong. It was one million, not 12 billion, and less than a decade. (The entire NASA budget for the 60's wasn't much over 12 billion). And there are reasons to not use a pencil in an orbiting spacecraft. (graphite's electrostatic properties, and debris from sharpening, for two.)

Yeah, I had realised it was incorrect, but I just found it to be an interesting quote.

I can't even remember where I found it any more actually...

	21-05-2003 08:12									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Chinese is more of cultural concept than racial one, same with American. The purest race is the one that reproduces through incests. But that's off topic.

Sure but you'd have to live with an exceptionally large population of loonies, depressed people, and truly dumb people


Alexander's stepbrother was a mad mofo but that is totally not relevant here

	21-05-2003 08:58									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer wide noses are better for warm climates supposedly because they cool the air hence why Africans generally got them. Yet mediterrenean people and Indians who live in almost the same climate as Africa have thin noses.

That's because the Indians are composed of two groups of peoples. Northern Indians were originally invaders having more in common with the Caucasians, thus the long thin noses. Southern Indians (I think they are called Dravidians) are darker with flatter noses.

	21-05-2003 09:06									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Cantonese do look different than Manchu and Han though and they are all chinese.

Not really. If I show you two Chinese, could you tell the difference between them? You probably can't, due to the numerous migrations over several thousand years with lots and lots of mixings.

Sure, there are some generic ans subtle differences, but unless you are a native, or have been in the region for years, in all likelihood you won't be able to tell.

	21-05-2003 09:09									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Asian as in Japanese? (Thin, fine featured, high cheecbones).

There's no indigenous Japanese population. Japaneses consist of 4 distinct groups of people, all migrants. Some 30% came from Korea, and some 30% came from China. Before them, there were two other waves, probably coming from some other islands.

The kind of Japanese you see on the streets and in the movies are very "Westernised," caused by the large number of US soldiers stationing there after WWII.

	21-05-2003 10:19									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Boshko: Cantonese do look different than Manchu and Han though and they are all chinese.

Cantonese are Han Chinese. Manchu are not Chinese. The Manchu are completely different group of people.

	21-05-2003 10:25									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer So Scandinavians do not have the body type you would expect of people living in cold climates because they migrated there recently?

Exactly. We start with a theory that race is determined by the physical environment. Any of the many real life facts that don't fit into this theory are explained by:
1) Oh, that group of people migrated there recently and we know that because they don't fit into the theory. If they do fit the theory then they have lived there a long, long time.
2) Oh, those people are not the same race (the bushmen are not part of the black race, the Swedes are not part of the white race).
3) Of, that's just a question of perception. The Swedes just look tall.

	21-05-2003 10:30									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer wide noses are better for warm climates supposedly because they cool the air hence why Africans generally got them. Yet mediterrenean people and Indians who live in almost the same climate as Africa have thin noses.

That's because all Mediterranean people migrated to the area. The same with Indians.

You also forgot about feet. People who live in hot areas have small feet because the ground is so hot so it is better to have less body surface area touching the ground.

People in northern areas have really wide feet because that's better for walking on snow. Just look at Bigfoot.

Oh, and people who live in wooded areas have longer arms to make it easier to pick fruit from trees. People from grassland areas have short arms.

It's true. It's a scientifically proven fact.

	21-05-2003 10:54									#53
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quote: God has saddled [Asians] with numerous deficits over the generations... they would multiply like cockroaches, He struck them with midgetitis so they’d take up less space. And He ensured that all body parts of the males were proportionate to that height to deter the multiplication...He hit them all with jaundice to discourage the rampant sexuality and to make sure you could pick them out in a crowd. After that Tower of Babel incident, He gave them the most difficult and annoying of the diverse languages, for which it takes an artist two or three hours just to draw a single letter of the alphabet. No matter what the Lord did to show how much He disliked them, they ignored it all, just squinting their eyes at the Lord in reply. And, frankly, the Lord finds them just as inscrutable as we do because even though He can read their thoughts, it's all in Chinese, which makes no sense to anyone. So, the Lord really didn't know what to do with these paddy critters. Well, no more.

it's funny, in a bad way.

why are asians the way they are? i dunno. hypotheses for why east asians tend to have that epicanthic fold, or why we tend to be of average height or just a shade of tan are nice, but they will remain just that--hypotheses.
that's not to say don't question why, but to not forget that it's something to be reveled in, that diversity...

and that's precisely why it saddens me when i read or see asian men and women undergo plastic surgery to increase their eye sizes, or to drop their calves, or to increase bust sizes and what not...

	21-05-2003 17:18									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Strangelove: but aren't there dozens of gene strands that create such traits as hair colour and eye colour and all that? i mean, i would think that a blue eyed blonde swede would have all these strands be different from a dark skinned, black haired hindu...

No. Skin, eye, and hair color are determined by relatively few genes.

	21-05-2003 17:39									#55
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quote: well yeah but most scandinavians look no different from Finns, right, who speak a pre-indo european language. so i presume most scandinavians are descended from the pre-germanic inhabitants - if anything the germanics brought in darker features

You know, you remind me of Ted Striker, who called me a "viking eurocom".

	21-05-2003 18:15									#56
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quote: a short and stocky body is the ideal for cold climates

why is that? I would think having long legs is an advantage when you have to wade through deep snow 24/7

	21-05-2003 18:43									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf why is that? I would think having long legs is an advantage when you have to wade through deep snow 24/7

Conserve body heat.

	21-05-2003 18:53									#58
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of course! and they use sledges etc anyway

	21-05-2003 19:05									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove No. Skin, eye, and hair color are determined by relatively few genes.

This got me thinking. We all know that on a hot summer day, a white t-shirt is cooler than a black t-shirt. White reflects the sun and heat.

So how come all those black people in Africa have got white hair and all those scandanavians have got blonde hair? IF all these genetics people are right then the black people should have blonde hair after living on the hot African savannahs for 10,000 years or more. The white people should all have dark hair to absorb heat.

So come all you "They're tall cause they live in hot climates".

What gives?

	21-05-2003 19:57									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai So how come all those black people in Africa have got white hair and all those scandanavians have got blonde hair? IF all these genetics people are right then the black people should have blonde hair after living on the hot African savannahs for 10,000 years or more. The white people should all have dark hair to absorb heat.

The more melanin in the skin, the better protection against UV radiation from the sun. People whose ancestors come from equatorial areas tend to have more melanin in their skin and therefore are darker. Some scientists think that lighter skin evolved to allow people who lived in the climates closer to the poles the ability to capture more sunlight to make Vitamin D.