28-05-2003 08:27									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks.

Now, since Lotus Vale does not come into play, thus, under the player's control, until the full cost has been paid, so would it not make more sense that the lands still need to be put into the graveyard as part of the cost?

If this land destuction is an effect intead, then I'd it gets nullifed by Celestial Dawn.

	29-05-2003 10:27									#32
	Support Apolyton

What happens if Ageless Sentinels blocks Battering Ram?

	29-05-2003 10:35									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

When it's still a Wall, it'd be destroyed.

	29-05-2003 10:36									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Now, since Lotus Vale does not come into play, thus, under the player's control, until the full cost has been paid, so would it not make more sense that the lands still need to be put into the graveyard as part of the cost?

It seems that Lotus Vale is never brought into play -- essentially what happens is that a Plains is brought into play, and that Plains is then enchanted to behave like a Lotus Vale when Celestial Dawn is destroyed. (It's actually that the enchantment causing it to be a Plains is destroyed, but same difference. If there were an enchantment that required that a cost be paid or that a benefit be granted whenever a Swamp is brought into play, then this enchantment wouldn't be triggered if I were to play Evil Influence (did I get that card right?) on a land, causing it to turn into a Swamp -- the land is already in play, so the Swamp is not actually being brought into play.)

	29-05-2003 10:40									#35
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by loinburger It seems that Lotus Vale is never brought into play -- essentially what happens is that a Plains is brought into play, and that Plains is then enchanted to behave like a Lotus Vale when Celestial Dawn is destroyed. (It's actually that the enchantment causing it to be a Plains is destroyed, but same difference. If there were an enchantment that required that a cost be paid or that a benefit be granted whenever a Swamp is brought into play, then this enchantment wouldn't be triggered if I were to play Evil Influence (did I get that card right?) on a land, causing it to turn into a Swamp -- the land is already in play, so the Swamp is not actually being brought into play.)

I believe that the Lotus Vale was brought into play, but was immediately changed into something else by a continuous effect. When this effect vanishes, it reverts back to the former form.

	29-05-2003 10:41									#36
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger When it's still a Wall, it'd be destroyed.

So if it blocks when it's a Wall, the ability doesn't turn it into a Giant Bird before Battering Ram's ability destroys it? OK.

	29-05-2003 13:27									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: I believe that the Lotus Vale was brought into play, but was immediately changed into something else by a continuous effect. When this effect vanishes, it reverts back to the former form.

For example, look at a spell, Goblin Grenade, that forces you to sacrifice a creature when cast. Even if you counter the spell, you still need to sacrifice the creature. Same principle applies to the Lotus Vale.

	30-05-2003 08:30									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Mr. President So if it blocks when it's a Wall, the ability doesn't turn it into a Giant Bird before Battering Ram's ability destroys it? OK.

I don't think so. Battering Ram destroys any Wall that blocks or is blocked by it. Ageless Sentinel might become a Giant Bird at end of turn, but that does not prevent the resolution of an effect.

	31-05-2003 20:58									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Ok, new one. You put Pariah on one of your own creatures. A wall for example, or some chinky protection-from-colour card, or a regenerator. Now all the damage that you are dealt is redirected to the creature. I'll quote the card for clarity.

quote: All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead

Then, for the sake of argument, possibly because you're stupid, or because you deliberately want a paradox, you place Treacherous Link on the same creature.

quote: All damage that would be dealt to enchanted creature is dealt to its controller instead

Now either all damage intended for you goes to the creature, and all damage intended for the creature goes to you; or it becomes an infinite loop, and the spells never resolve.

	31-05-2003 21:17									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Good one.

	31-05-2003 22:10									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthrea...threadid=106764

d'oh! They cancel each other out.

And rather disappointingly, this question has arisen many many times before on the forums.

	01-06-2003 12:58									#42
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Too bad, infinite loop would be much more interesting.

	02-06-2003 06:42									#43
	Got spare money?

Wouldn't the player simply get to choose how much damage goes to Pariah and how much to himself?

	02-06-2003 08:30									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Apperantly not. Looks like the ruling is both effects activate once and exactly once.

	02-06-2003 13:00									#45
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What's "fading?"

What's "ocT?"

quote: Belbe’s Armor 3, Artifact, Nemesis Uncommon X, ocT: Target creature gets -X/+X until end of turn.

Edit: nevermind what "ocT" is. Just some messed up code on the website. Pah.

	02-06-2003 13:03									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You put some counters on the creature and remove one during your upkeep. When there are no counters left, the creature dies.

	03-06-2003 06:12									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Mine is different. It's a global instead of local enchantment.

What is the difference between global and local enchantments?

	03-06-2003 07:33									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by thinkingamer What is the difference between global and local enchantments?

Local enchantment affects just one player. Global enchantment affects everybody.

That's the way I interpret it, anyway.

	03-06-2003 07:37									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I odn't think there is a difference anymore

Jon Miller

	03-06-2003 07:42									#50
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Local enchantment affects just one player. Global enchantment affects everybody. That's the way I interpret it, anyway.

ok. thx for the clarification.

	03-06-2003 08:49									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Except that it's false.

A local enchantment affects one target. They generally read "Enchant Creature," "Enchant Land," "Enchant Enchantment," and so on. It's generally stuck right underneath/on top of the permenant it's enchanting.

A global enchantment is controlled by a player and just kind of sits there, activating its effect.

So Glorious Anthem is a global enchantment that says "Creatures you control get +1/+1," and the you refers to the controller of the enchantment. It's still a global enchantment.

Crusade says "White creatures get +1/+1," and this too is a global enchantment, that just happens to affect everybody.

Holy Strength is obviously a local enchantment ("enchanted creature gets +1/+2").

	03-06-2003 10:42									#52
	Tired of ads?

UR, next time please try to not misinform me.

	03-06-2003 16:44									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Sure? So what is Sterling Grove?

	03-06-2003 23:01									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sterling Grove
{G}{W}
Enchantment
All other enchantments you control can't be the target of spells or abilities.
1, Sacrifice Sterling Grove: Search your library for an enchantment card and reveal that card. Shuffle your library and put the card on top of it.

Sterling Grove is an enchantment with a static ability which that only affects you.

Contrast with, say:

Divine Sacrament
{1}{W}{W}
Enchantment
White creatures get +1/+1. Threshold - White creatures get an additional +1/+1. (You have threshold as long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard.)

This is an enchantment you own but whose static ability affects all white creatures and not just yours.

There is absolutely no distinction between global enchantments affecting only you and global enchantments which affect all players, simply who controls them and who owns them. Local enchantments target a specific permanent only.

edit: sorry Snowfire, I see you've already answered this question before it was asked. There is, however, a seperate category of enchantment called Enchant World, which has already been covered in this very thread.

	15-06-2003 19:58									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just thought of something.

If you put a Pariah on Dawn Elemental, which is:

quote: Dawn Elemental - WWWW Creature - Elemental (rare) Flying Prevent all damage that would be dealt to Dawn Elemental. 3/3

Does that mean you are invulerable until your opponent takes it out somehow?

Then, add to the combo, Diplomatic Immunity.

That looks nasty.

	15-06-2003 20:06									#56
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I beleive so

Jon Miller

	16-06-2003 02:36									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, the Pariah/Elemental Combo would need a (probably black) instant-death spell, but add the diplomatic immunity, and you'd need a global effect card like Wrath of God to take it out. Sweet

	16-06-2003 16:06									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Can enchantments ever become tapped?

The Ice half of Apocalypse's Fire/Ice says "Tap target permanent." An enchantment is a permanent, but it never taps under normal circumstances. Can Ice target an enchantment?

	16-06-2003 21:13									#59
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think so, but tapping an enchantment doesn't do anything as far as I know.