26-05-2003 09:58									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I don't see why you are so quick to blame the system here in this case. I say it is the boy's own fault if they aren't learning here. So it's the schools fault if these boys can't sit down through class, do their homework, study? What these boys who are failing to perform need here is discipline, so they can catch up with the boys and girls who can do well academically.

It's kind of hard to blame little kids. They whipped my a$$ and it didn't help a bit. You do have to teach some kids differently.

	26-05-2003 10:00									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I don't mean students shouldn't be able to ask questions, in fact every HS teacher and professor I have come across encourages students to participate in class.

I've had the same experience with high school teachers and college professors (as I mentioned in my last post). However, prior to high school, the asking of questions was considered to be disruptive, and got me (and others, usually males) in a great deal of trouble and/or earned me the animosity of the teacher. This severely pissed me off at the time, and spurred me on to committing bigger and better acts of disruption. When high school rolled around I was able to switch gears without too much difficulty -- my acts of pure disruption went back under the table, while my acts of disruption-***-initiative were just as strong as they'd ever been. Others weren't so fortunate -- some had repressed their "disruptive" urges to the extent that they had trouble bringing them back to the surface in high school, while others had gotten so used to their (legitimately) disruptive lifestyle that they had difficulty switching gears. Both of these latter problems tend (in my experience) to affect males far more than females, for the very reasons cited in this thread -- males are less prone to sitting still and quietly twiddling their thumbs, and so they are more likely to be labelled (often falsely) as having disciplinary problems early in their educations.

IMO, if early education were more focused on, well, education, and less focused on discipline, then the disparity would be lessened if not eliminated.

	26-05-2003 10:15									#33
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If men can't keep up, its their own goddamn fault. They'll then be losers whose wives earn more than them.

I'm gonna make sure that doesn't happen to me.

	26-05-2003 10:16									#34
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I wouldn't mind being a house husband. I could sit at home, watch the kids, and watch Oprah.

	26-05-2003 10:16									#35
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Oh, the pain! At least watch Jerry Springer, man...

	26-05-2003 10:17									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Finally, Americans realizing the flaws of their current educational system Cause you would love it so if American males got military type training .

quote: You must be blind not to notice that .

Most Americans seem to acknowledge that somethings not working, but they dont seem to want to go deeper than that

	26-05-2003 10:19									#37
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Oh, the pain! At least watch Jerry Springer, man...

Alrighty, Jerry it is though maybe a bit of Montel Williams as well.

	26-05-2003 12:21									#38
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Women outclassing men 60/40 academically? Fine by me! I'll stay home and watch the kids while the wife bungles in the business jungle.

(p.s. I have no kids and am in process of divorce)

	26-05-2003 12:51									#39
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I don't see a big gender gap here (teach at a law faculty). But there are some subtle differences.

Women have overtaken men in numbers, at least when it comes to class attendence. When I was a student, it was about 50-50. Now it's about 60-40.

On average women seem to learn better, probably put more effort into learning. In one class I offered a test case for practice - got a female/male participation ratio of 17:3 (!). I asked my male colleagues what on earth they are thinking - that they will marry rich?

Another odd thing is the disparity within the groups. Among the absolutely best, there's a clear male majority. Among the absolutly worst, there's an even bigger male majority. (that observation is supported by some studies, but I'm sure there are others to dispute it)

I don't see any particular structural advantage for women though. Seems men are really just more lazy.

	26-05-2003 16:12									#40
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quote: Others weren't so fortunate -- some had repressed their "disruptive" urges to the extent that they had trouble bringing them back to the surface in high school,

Well, I must say that I do not do as well in the university system as I did in High school. What I liked, and what tends to work for me is having a structured day, five days a week for most of the year.

	26-05-2003 16:52									#41
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One thing has to be said: Affirmative action is not the solution.

Improve learning for boys. There are ways to do this, as you've all pointed out.

	26-05-2003 16:56									#42
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Frankly, I'm all for handing society as a whole over to women. And the sooner, the better.

	26-05-2003 18:18									#44
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler I don't see a big gender gap here (teach at a law faculty). But there are some subtle differences. Women have overtaken men in numbers, at least when it comes to class attendence. When I was a student, it was about 50-50. Now it's about 60-40. On average women seem to learn better, probably put more effort into learning. In one class I offered a test case for practice - got a female/male participation ratio of 17:3 (!). I asked my male colleagues what on earth they are thinking - that they will marry rich? Another odd thing is the disparity within the groups. Among the absolutely best, there's a clear male majority. Among the absolutly worst, there's an even bigger male majority. (that observation is supported by some studies, but I'm sure there are others to dispute it) I don't see any particular structural advantage for women though. Seems men are really just more lazy.

Lots of people see this more extreme bell curve for males. I'm not sure how much is disposition and how much is intelligence. Some IQ studies show males with a higher standard deviation of IQ (but about the same mode). I've also noticed the female as more willing to take "coaching" type instruction.

	26-05-2003 20:20									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior If men can't keep up, its their own goddamn fault. They'll then be losers whose wives earn more than them. I'm gonna make sure that doesn't happen to me.

I heartily agree (no sarcasm), and offer these corollaries: "If women can't keep up, it's their own goddamn fault." "If blacks can't keep up, it's their own goddamn fault." etc.

	26-05-2003 22:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior They'll then be losers whose wives earn more than them. I'm gonna make sure that doesn't happen to me.

surely you arent serious

	26-05-2003 23:59									#47
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Perhaps we should consider chucking the whole idea of schools. I learned more by being home sick and watching the publicly owned channels' schools programmes.

	27-05-2003 00:16									#48
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quote: Originally posted by GP Lots of people see this more extreme bell curve for males. I'm not sure how much is disposition and how much is intelligence. Some IQ studies show males with a higher standard deviation of IQ (but about the same mode).

It could be modified by women being less likely to show off. I've seen the most competent women suffering from self doubts, while the most incompetent men were oozing self confidence.

	27-05-2003 00:18									#49
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quote: I've seen the most competent women suffering from self doubts, while the most incompetent men were oozing self confidence.

This is something what I have noticed, too.

	27-05-2003 00:23									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 surely you arent serious

Yup. I'll be laughing at all those obnoxious kids who didn't try hard in school as I drive in my BMW with my beautiful wife, through a puddle, splashing them with muddy water as they walk by.

Now I'm not serious.

	27-05-2003 00:46									#51
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no, the whole thing about being a loser cause your wife makes more than you. are you planning on meeting your wife in the while, clubbing her, and then dragging her back to your cave to make little primates?

	27-05-2003 01:08									#52
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler It could be modified by women being less likely to show off. I've seen the most competent women suffering from self doubts, while the most incompetent men were oozing self confidence.

Yeah, I already said that there were two variables at play (temperment and intelligence distribution). The are of course confounding, so a proper study would work on isolating them and determining which is most significant. If both occur. &ct.

	27-05-2003 01:19									#53
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quote: no, the whole thing about being a loser cause your wife makes more than you. are you planning on meeting your wife in the while, clubbing her, and then dragging her back to your cave to make little primates?

Preparing your strategy for excuses to your wife of why you bring a shitty paycheque. "I thought we were in the 21st century! this is bullshit!".

Smart man!

	27-05-2003 03:28									#54
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man, im gonna be an audio engineer...theres no way im gonna make huge money.

	27-05-2003 03:28									#55
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Marry rich .

	27-05-2003 04:04									#56
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if ur worried about being a loser for ur wife supporting the family, I got a slick strategy.

Marry a rich person
Divorce
Steal half of the assets
Marry a poor person

yay! u wont feel like a loser

	27-05-2003 04:07									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Marry rich .

thats the plan!

	27-05-2003 05:47									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 man, im gonna be an audio engineer...theres no way im gonna make huge money.

What you do with your money is more important than how much you make. My girlfriend makes 6 figures, while I make less than half that. Yet my balance sheet has my net worth at about 3-4 times hers. She's going to have to pour it on to catch up to me. And no, her salary doesn't bother me in the least, I'm happy for her.

	27-05-2003 05:50									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Zero if ur worried about being a loser for ur wife supporting the family, I got a slick strategy. Marry a rich person Divorce Steal half of the assets Marry a poor person yay! u wont feel like a loser

I like the plan, but I suggest that you change one item:

Instead of marrying a poor person, may I suggest marrying a younger person who has surgically enhanced secondary sexual characteristics and looks damned good in the passenger seat of your convertable. Poor is probably better here, but not necessarily critical.

	27-05-2003 05:53									#60
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well, i do manage my money really well. but still i love having all sorts of recording equipment at home. thank god im moving more towards computer based stuff rather than hardware. although some day i will have some hardware synths.