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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:12
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I find the most annoying things about CIVII are the same things that were annoying years ago in CIVI. Worst of all have to be the bizarre time-space problems.
Case 1: It takes 1000 years for someone to get anywhere, even in modern times travel is completely unrealistic. World War II would have taken 100 years if CIVII physics were in play.
Case 2: A city of 10,000 builds a phalanx, which can somehow magically impede the movement of your Panzer Corps (built by a city of several million) throughout an area larger than many of the states of Europe.
Case 3: At all times and in all cases (except in cities or forts) stacking (read concentration) of your forces within a single square increases the danger to your forces, while giving you little or no benefit, contrary to all the known principles of warfare throughout history with the possible exception of a full nuclear exchange scenario.
Let's face facts. Civ II is really Civ I with improved AI and a scenario editor. As a wargame Civ 1 was 20 years behind the times when it came out (rigid ZOCs, A square Grid instead of hexes, proportional odds resolution with no unit differentiation, tactical combat played out on the strategic map). IMHO it is best to minimize the wargame aspects of CIV (there are literally hundreds of better wargames), and play to it's strengths which are the economic and technological parts of the game. Unfortunately these are very old now, and pale in comparison to other games like SMACX. So I wait with dread for CivIII which seems destined to be far too much like it's predecessors to be any good. Can Fireaxis pleasantly surprise me?
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When the AI builds a city only two squres away from one of mine and the 'Senate has met behind my back and signed a permanent peace treaty!' >:-/
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George Garrett
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Victoria. B.C. Canada
May 1999
time: 21:12
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War-4ever I read your complaint about workless surpus engineers some time ago - I had the same problem in a recent game. All city squares in my dominions were cultivated til they groaned, I was waiting for my space-craft to land, and there were all these bods hanging about...just for something to do, I started topping up my below-8 cities,with the "Join City" option, and was pleasantly surprised to find that each city, thus replenished gave me a "We Love The Leader"day. Thus encouraged I tried founding cities hither and yon, on desert, tundra, other city's squares,etc, and building them up with spare engs ...from these, also I got WLTL days...very rewarding, and much fun!
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East Street Trader
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London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:12
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Goddammit! Left undisturbed in early stage of current game so got cities down, built trireme chain and had first wave of caravans ready just as Republic discovered. First caravan (from HG celebrating London) plus a diplo sets off down the chain to reach a Japanese city where commodity demanded. Licking lips at prospect of 200 plus return and a 5/6 arrow route. Reach last ship, wake up caravan and diplo and hit keys to send trireme over last three squares. Trireme reaches last square and suddenly THERE IS A JAPANESE TRIREME in the square. I'm at war with the envious Japs so I've just inadvertently attacked the bastard. And does my trireme win the battle? Of course bloody not! Trireme, cargo and dip all go to the bottom.
I can't work out why the Japanese trireme was invisible until I arrived in the square right next to it. I had already explored the coast so shouldn't it have been in view?
So my nomination is either not being able to see units (other than subs) in reasonable time (if what happened is cosher) or BLOODY MYSTERIOUS AND INEXPLICABLE EVENTS WHICH SINK MY SHIPS if it was not.
Bet I have to defer representative gov.t an oedo cycle or two. Damn, stupid, idiotic, ridiculous, blather, blather, moan, complain, moan...
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander on 03-07-2001 06:08 AM
I find the most annoying things about CIVII are the same things that were annoying years ago in CIVI. Worst of all have to be the bizarre time-space problems.
Case 1: It takes 1000 years for someone to get anywhere, even in modern times travel is completely unrealistic. World War II would have taken 100 years if CIVII physics were in play.
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As has been pointed out elsewhere, its not possible to make a playable and fun 6000 year civ game with realistic movement. Assuming turns are one year each, that means that in modern times ships can virtually teleport anywhere in the world in the space of a turn? how interesting a war can you have that way - Imagine WW1 in 4 turns!!!! how could you get into strategic and economic and political dilemmas of modern war in 4 turns???
OTOH supposing you have, say, 3 month turns - if you apply this from turn one, (4000 BC) that 24000 turns!!!!!! you want to spend the rest of your life playing one game of civ? Well you could attemt longer turns in the early game (but not TOO LONG, or your legions will go from one end of europe to another AND back in less than a turn - and thus cannot be shown) and have shorter turns in later years. Brandon von Every, posting in usenet,
has shown that this will not work.
There are only four options
1. Give up on including war or unit movement at all, (and even drop diplomacy, which in real life tends to happen fast, not in 5 year segments) and make the game only about economics and research ( an even more abstract imperialism) A vast historical simulation, but hardly a game.
2. Allow for thousands of turns> Again, forget about a playable or commercially feasible game.
3.Swallow hard and accept the unrealistic physics (the civ2 solution)
4. Model a much shorter time period (the EU solution)
Lord of the Mark
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Father Beast
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My head stuck permanently in my civ
Feb 2000
time: 22:12
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AARRGGHH!!! This never happened to me before!!!
I was in this long protracted war with the americans, and after 40 years, they finally deigned to talk to me. since I have the UN, that means a peace offer. I accepted their offer of peace, considering some more peaceful domination, and did not attack the rest of the turn.
during their turn, the ugly americans sneak attacked, destroyed a fledgling city, and then came to talk without my turn even coming up! I refused, of course, but the senate overruled me and signed the peace treaty!?!?!
so the americans were able to attack, do damage, and declare peace (along with those traitors in the senate) all on their own turn without giving me a chance to retaliate!!!!
again - AARRGGHH!!!
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Chris1111
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NC USA
Mar 2001
time: 05:12
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The most irritating thing is landing upon the shores of the enemy capital with 8 tanks and having my senate declare a cease fire.
That is when the leader goes insane kills everyone in the senate and declares himself the new Holy Emperor of the Republic.
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06-03-2001 23:41
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