11-06-2003 18:52									#91
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common deck - only commons - no uncommons or rares

	11-06-2003 18:53									#92
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what about sideboard? 10, 15, none?

	11-06-2003 19:00									#93
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hmm

when I was looking at that price list its seemed that any good rare was 10ish dollars

that is where the 100 came from

also with the 1/3/9 distribution and the 400 cards, I figured things would be devided fairly well

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 19:17									#94
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missunderstanding! You said 100$ for 400 cards. They think 100$ per deck. 100$ for 400 cards is ok. Someone please set up the rules:

Deck size (60)
Sideboard (if any)
How many cards do we choose (just the deck or 400 and then make deck out of those 400)?
..for how much $
What editions?

	11-06-2003 19:43									#95
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OK tell me if this fits within the requirements:

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 1 Common Deck

1 Primoc Escapee
3 Birchlore Ranger
1 Brontotherium
4 Fierce Empath
1 Gempalm Strider
1 Krosan Drover
1 Krosan Groundshaker
1 Needleshot Gourna
1 Patron of the Wild
3 Timberwatch Elf
1 Titanic Bulvox
1 Venomspout Brackus
1 Wellwisher
4 Wirewood Elf
4 Wirewood Guardian
4 Wirewood Herald
1 Wirewood Savage
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Woodcloaker
19 Forest
3 Wirewood Lodge

I know this has no rares but I have no idea about uncommons.

	11-06-2003 19:57									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Daz missunderstanding! You said 100$ for 400 cards. They think 100$ per deck. 100$ for 400 cards is ok. Someone please set up the rules: Deck size (60) Sideboard (if any) How many cards do we choose (just the deck or 400 and then make deck out of those 400)? ..for how much $ What editions?

I was thinnking

100 for 400 cards

deck size 60

sure sideboard (any nonused cards)

as many as you want over 400 (make deck with those cards)

100 dollars

1/3/9 ratio (at the least oyu must have 3 uncommons for every rare and 3 commons for every uncommon)

any editions

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 20:55									#97
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at least that is what I would like to suggest (Since that would seem to approximate my real expereince best)

if people want to do other things that is coolalso

and a common deck is made all of commons, no uncommons or rares

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 21:35									#98
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No sealed decks? I much prefer sealed decks.

	11-06-2003 21:49									#99
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well

I had a commons deck I was making

it had

4 tranquilities **
4 lanowar elves ***
4 seeker of stonebreaks **
4 wood elves **
4 giant growths *

4 wirewood heralds ***
4 well wishers ***
4 taunting elves ***
4 elvish pioneers ***
4 elvish warriors ***
4 elvish guidances **

4 defiant elves ***
4 patrons of the wild **
4 timberwatch elves ***
4 stonewood envokers **
4 nantuko vigiliantes **

4 fireballs ***

Deck would be than
4 fireballs
4 nantuko vigiliantes
4 timberwatch elves
4 defiant elves
4 lanowar elves
4 wirewood heralds
4 taunting elves
4 well wishers
4 elvish pioneers
4 elvish warriors
4 elvish guidances
6 mountains
10 forests

I probably should check back over that, but it seems right

and it woudl be made a lot better with a couple of coat of arms

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 21:52									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger No sealed decks? I much prefer sealed decks.

like where people pull a starter and two boosters and amke a deck?

that is alright, and I would play it

but I prefer constructed with resources

as in yu can't get everythign (or enar everything), but you can still plan out what decks you make with a limited selection of cards

it is just that the standard sealed deck gives too limited

I would be interested in a sealed card deal

where instead of buy specific cards you bought starters or boosters, and than added those into your card collection

one of the things I like is the looking over a limited selection of cards (where often the best fit for the deck does not exist in your collection, nor does the second best), and so you have to work with your cards to make an idea work

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 22:03									#101
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Okay, here's my common deck "Goblins Rampage"

Mountains x20
Mons' Goblin Raiders x4
Goblin Digging Team x4
Raging Goblin x4
Goblin Masons x4
Goblin Shrine x4
Goblins of the Flarg x4
Goblin Caves x4
Goblin Chirurgeon x4
Goblin Grenade x4
Goblin Elite Infantry x4

	11-06-2003 22:09									#102
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Make three decks for 100$, 1 Common Deck 1 Multi-colour deck 1 Mono-colour deck. So hop to it! You have no other restrictions other than the WotC Type 1 restricted list.

Could a mono deck includes artifacts and non-basic lands as well? I say we should.

Also, other than the common deck, no deck can be more than twice as expensive as other decks.

	12-06-2003 03:16									#103
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Okay, I'm confused. I still don't like the 100 dollar idea, but sure. Instead of increasing the confusion, I'm going to go with Obi-Wan's idea and hope everyone follows: 100 dollars split among 3 decks.

For Mono-Color, I always liked my Master Apocethary deck. I could be cheap-ass and get all sorts of cheap Shadow creatures from Tempest to improve it (Hello Soltari Priest & Monk!), but I'll resist the temptation. This is just my deck straight-up, and it's Type II legal, for what it's worth.

18 Plains
1 Starlit Sanctum
4 Secluded Steppe
1 Disenchant
1 Serra Angel
1 Wrath of God
1 Chastise
2 Intrepid Hero
1 Akroma's Blessing
1 Lieutenant Kirtar
1 Commander Eesha
2 Exalted Angel
2 Battle Screech
1 Divine Sacrament
3 Glorious Anthem
4 Master Apothecary
4 Whipcorder
4 Beloved Chaplain
4 Benevolent Bodyguard
2 Nova Cleric
2 Weathered Wayfarer

It seems we're ignoring sideboards, but it's got COP Green & Black, more Intrepid Heroes, more disenchants, and some graveyard removal.

I estimate this deck's cost at 58 or so dollars, mostly because of the Wrath & 2 Exalted Angels.

Multicolor... hmm, there's a silly combo with Erratic Explosion (reveal cards from the top of your library till you hit a non-land: then do damage to target creature or player based off its Converted Casting cost) & Draco (which costs 16 colorless to put into play, but not really). You use Brainstorm or Scroll Rack to insure that Draco is on top of your library, then, Kaboom! I hear some people actually use this deck in Extended. Here's my version.

4 Erratic Explosion
3 Draco
2 Scroll Rack
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
4 Brainstorm
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Fire/Ice
2 Earthquake
2 Memory Lapse
2 Pyroclasm
17 Island
8 Mountain

Hmm.. this comes out to around 35 dollars by my estimate.

For an all-commons deck, I think that Black-Red burn'em up sounds good to me. Tempest has some really nice additions here.

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Firebolt
3 Mogg Fanatic
3 Suq'Ata Lancer
3 Duress
4 Carnophage
4 Fallen Askari
4 Dauthi Horror
2 Erg Raiders
4 Terminate
11 Mountain
10 Swamp

Originally added Acidic Sliver, but that was uncommon. I estimate this deck to be around 25 dollars, and ironically, might be the best of all of them.

Hmm, as expected, this is a bit over 100 dollars, at 118. So time to slim down my Apocethary deck. Cut the Wrath of God & 2 Exalted Angels (saving a good 30 dollars) plus the Chastise and add in instead
1 Atalya, Samite Master
3 Swords to Plowshares.
Which costs a mere 4 dollars according to that source (Odd, I would have valued this around 13- Swords really only goes for a dollar?! It was an uncommon, but a very good one, so I'd say it's worth 4).

Hmm, now I have an additonal 11 dollars to spend. Well, we can strengthen up the mana base on my Red/Blue deck. Change it from 17 Islands / 8 Mountains to
14 Islands
5 Mountains
4 Shivan Reef
(the 4 reefs cost 9 bucks, according to the site)
Freeing up an additional 2 slots for... um... 2 Lighting Bolts! Sure, why not, when in doubt.

So final price tally is 32 dollars for Master Apocethary, 46 dollars for Draco Explosion, and 25 dollars for Fire & Brimstone. Which is actually a wee bit above 100. Oops, oh well, I'll correct it later, don't know how that happened.

My ICQ # is 35476699. My AIM Screename is Snowflame. If you've thrown together a deck in this format- or just want to make Sealed decks on Apprentice and play that way- give me a ring.

Last edited by SnowFire on 12-06-2003 at 03:21

	12-06-2003 03:42									#104
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Hmph, and actually calculating the price of my commons deck, I see once again that they low-ball the prices. It's 15 dollars, not 25, so that's an extr 10 in the bank. Are these buying prices, I wonder? Or maybe just closer to the true cost, instead of actual selling over the Internet price.
Oh well, remove the Serra Angel and turn her into an Exalted Angel then. Hopefully this will be the last adjustment.

	12-06-2003 07:19									#105
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Hm, I think you can only have 4 of each card? So you can't have 6 lightning bolts.

	12-06-2003 07:56									#106
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Er, you're fully free to own more than 4 of each card. Merely you can't play more than 4 in one deck. You'll note that there are 4 LBs in my commons deck and 2 LBs in the Erratic Explosion deck, fully within the limits.

As a side note, the commons deck isn't quite as good as I first thought, for the simple and obvious reason of an inconsistent mana base. It's weenies so it doesn't want to run too much land, but that means the chances of being color-screwed are fairly high, alas. It runs great if you can get a Mountain and a Swamp though.

	12-06-2003 12:01									#107
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to me doing these dream decks is not as cool as making your own decks from some selection of cards you own

I would sort of like to approximate that if at all possible

the way we are doing things now, you can just always get the perfect card for your deck within the rules, you don't have to work with cards that aren't quite perfect

Jon miller

Jon Miller

	12-06-2003 12:27									#108
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JM, I'm not sure what you mean by dream decklist. If you mean "a deck we think would be cool and as idealized as possible, within the price constraints" then yes, I've made dream decklists. That said, that's why I was much more in favor of sealed decks before. I also have decks I actually own and have made in the past stored in Apprentice anyway, so in terms of working from a real card pool and the kind of randomness that gives you, I can do that as well (Oh, a Viashivan dragon in my Visions pack! Guess I'll make a Green-Red deck around it!).

I mean, not to be antagonistic, but do you want us to intentionally build suboptimally if you're going to give us money and just send us off shopping? You were the one who said "You have 100 dollars" and set us more down the whole money path over just opening a bunch of sealed decks... sealed decks would have that casual feel to it. That said, there's something to be said in terms of having fun with "dream" decklists. Nothing says we only can play these.

Anyway, let's get to actually playing! I'm just randomly searching for a job right now, meaning I spend a lot of time online kinda sorta working but certianly free to play. Message me, and maybe we'll eventually work out a good format.

	12-06-2003 12:34									#109
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I vote sealed deck!!!

One starter, two boosters plus extra lands.

Who is with me?

	12-06-2003 12:38									#110
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I don't mind sealed deck.. I presume extra lands is just basic lands.

	12-06-2003 13:22									#111
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correct.

So how are we gonna do this? Do we have one person in charge of "opening" the starters/boosters and giving the players their cardlists or

every one of us "opens" their cards and "gives" them to someone else...?

	12-06-2003 17:46									#112
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire JM, I'm not sure what you mean by dream decklist. If you mean "a deck we think would be cool and as idealized as possible, within the price constraints" then yes, I've made dream decklists. That said, that's why I was much more in favor of sealed decks before. I also have decks I actually own and have made in the past stored in Apprentice anyway, so in terms of working from a real card pool and the kind of randomness that gives you, I can do that as well (Oh, a Viashivan dragon in my Visions pack! Guess I'll make a Green-Red deck around it!). I mean, not to be antagonistic, but do you want us to intentionally build suboptimally if you're going to give us money and just send us off shopping? You were the one who said "You have 100 dollars" and set us more down the whole money path over just opening a bunch of sealed decks... sealed decks would have that casual feel to it. That said, there's something to be said in terms of having fun with "dream" decklists. Nothing says we only can play these. Anyway, let's get to actually playing! I'm just randomly searching for a job right now, meaning I spend a lot of time online kinda sorta working but certianly free to play. Message me, and maybe we'll eventually work out a good format.

hmm

I think you are right, people wouldn't just buy a whole bunch of casual cards with 100

but can we open a bunch of sealed decks and give that to people to play arround with?

Jon Miller

	12-06-2003 17:47									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Daz correct. So how are we gonna do this? Do we have one person in charge of "opening" the starters/boosters and giving the players their cardlists or every one of us "opens" their cards and "gives" them to someone else...?

I actually have an idea

but I won't be arround much until late weekend (at elast, not on my PC)

Jon Miller

	12-06-2003 17:52									#114
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here is the first of 4

it is ice age + 2 tempests

Jon Miller

Attachment: first.txt
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	12-06-2003 17:53									#115
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2nd of 4

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	12-06-2003 17:54									#116
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3rd

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	12-06-2003 17:54									#117
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4th

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	13-06-2003 00:48									#118
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Er... I didn't expect people to actually change course on this. But sure, whatever.

For Sealed decks, why can't we just trust people to generate them on the spot using either the Suitcase or Apprentice's Sealed deck generator? Unless yours doesn't work of course, like in the case of UR, where somebody else can certainly generate for you. Deckbuilding from a small pool like that generally only takes 5 minutes or so anyway.

So, if you play anyone online, just generate your decks on the spot, and then maybe post the results here, along with what expansions you used to generate your decks?

	13-06-2003 05:55									#119
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How bout this?

type II only, 60 cards minimun each deck,

1 rare card,
2 uncommons
4 commons?

	13-06-2003 12:48									#120
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Allow me to put an end to this. Who wants to play?

Use the random deck generator and open Ice Age starter + 2 tempest boosters.

Send me the decklist. I will send you mine, just say what format (apprentice or suitcase).

60 cards, all cards are sideboard. Do we use PMs or do we do it publicly?