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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:28
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he doesn't need a diet though
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Bereta_Eder
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Vetty I sincerely hope you dont believe that (I leave alone that we'd kick your sorry asses all the way up to the danube), but the thing about tito.
Tito was the one who "engineered" the "macedonian question" in order to have a go at entering in the West.
Dont make me dig up multiple documents, including the CIA's, about this. They're declassified you know.
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Bereta_Eder
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and stop scaring people with you PM.
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Bereta_Eder
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It was the Cold War if you don't remember. Greece was in the West, Yugoslavia in the East (although a bit detached).
Tito went to great pains to engineer the "macedonian question" and the "liberation movement" against Greece in order to have a go at the West.
And yes Tito helped the Greek commies at the civil war which makes him a criminal.
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Bereta_Eder
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I'm not interested in trolling.
So I'll just get you the CIA files.
Hold on.
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VetLegion
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quote:
How do you think we doubled our territory in just half a century? |
By occupying and enslaving territories that belong to other peoples, ofcourse. Exploiting the power vacuum left after the ottomans were kicked out by Russia and Austria.
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Bereta_Eder
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sorry vetty but whatkind of a discussion can one have to some cheesburger who got offered entrance to the EU, rejected it, and then went on to fight the most repulsive civil war of the end of the 20nth century?
It's not my fault when God rained brains you were holding an umbrella.
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VetLegion
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quote:
Venizelos managed to block the Yugoslav claims and conclude a treaty with Belgrade which did not call into question Greece's sovereignty over its Macedonian territory |
And why do you think there was an issue in the first place? Because there were millions of Macedonians under Greek occupation by then. But the Serbs have also doubled their territory at that time, so they could live without southern Macedonia.
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Bereta_Eder
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And get your facts straight.
The Balkan Wars occurred only a couple of years before the first world war began, as a result of these wars Greece's area and population doubled. The Ottoman Empire no longer the super power that it once was, and now known as "The Sick Man of Europe", was assured defeat at the onset of the First Balkan War.
The Balkan Wars reshape the map of Europe, doubling the size of Greece.
In the early years of the 20th century the Ottoman Turks allowed the Bulgarians to change the ethnic "Greek" character of Macedonia through persecutions, see Paulos Melas. The persecutions of the Greeks of Macedonia and the inability to free Crete by Greece, damaged the national conscience of Greece. The end result was a revolution by the military that overthrew the Greek government on the 15th of August 1909.
The overthrow of the government was widely accepted throughout Greece and brought a new sense of pride to the nation. The military placed Elefterios Venizelos who would later become prime minister of Greece, see Elefterios Venizelos as their representative in power. Venizelos managed to bring sweeping reforms to Greece. One of his reforms was to create a very powerful army which would eventually be used in the liberation of the "Greek Speaking" territories.
The arrival of the Neo-Turks into power in 1908 in the Ottoman Empire foreshadowed an impending war in the Balkans. The Neo-Turks were an educated class and with members of the military in the Ottoman Empire they managed to overthrow the Sultan Abdul Hamid and place on the throne his brother Muhamad the 5th.
The occupied populations of the Balkans cheered the arrival of the Neo-Turks as it was believed that this new class of educated leaders of the Ottoman Empire would promote equality of all. The Neo-Turks became the opposite of what it was believed that they would have become. These "new thinking Turks" were in fact far crueler than the previous Turks. Massive persecutions swept the Balkans and hundreds of thousands were murdered under their direction. A massive attempt was made to wipe out the ethnic groups in the Balkans, and force them to become Turks and Muslims.
The countries of Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro feared for their brothers in the enslaved Balkans. The countries then decided that their differences had to be put aside as they shared the common desire to free their populations from Ottoman occupation. The time to act was now when the weakened state of the Turkish empire assured them of a Turkish defeat. To not act by the combined forces would mean the eradication of their people either through murder or through assimilation into the Turkish race.The First Balkan War
The Balkan wars were different then any other wars the Turks had fought. Though the Turks were undoubtedly good soldiers, they had been used to outnumbering their enemies in wars that they fought. As a result of threats from many fronts, the Ottoman Empire had spread its large and significant army throughout its empire thus weakening it. Though several hundred thousand troops still remained in the Balkans the alliance of Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Montenegro served many more troops than the Turks resulting in the Turkish Army being outnumbered two to one. In the past many enemies of the Turks were not armed as heavily, this new alliance of nations was heavily armed with the newest military equipment. The defeat of the Ottoman Empire's army at the hands of the alliances armies in the Balkans was only a matter of time.
Knowing full well the state of the Ottoman empire and fearing the impending genocide of their peoples the alliance decided to crush the Ottoman Empire's army in the Balkans. On the 4th of October 1914 Bulgaria, Serbia and Montenegro declared war on the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire responded by declaring war on Bulgaria and Serbia and hoped for Greece to stay out of the war. The next day Greece respecting the secret alliance it held with Serbia formally declared war on the Ottoman Empire.
The Turkish army was immediately overwhelmed by the combined forces and began retreating on all fronts. The Greek soldiers confident in their new army and anxious to invade the Ottoman Empire one day behind their allies ran with jubilation across the Greek-Ottoman border at Thessaly attacking the Ottoman Turkish positions. One after another city after city fell to the advancing Greek army. The Greek army reached as far north as the ethnic Greek city of Koritsa in modern Albania. On the 27th of October the Greek army entered victorious into Thessalonica liberating the capital of Macedonia. Similar victories were occurring on all fronts with Greece's allies.
Whereas the largest portion of the Greek army was liberating Macedonia a large segment was liberating Epirus from Ottoman Occupation. The city of Ioannina with German military assistance had been fortified so strongly that it was practically impenetrable. The Greek army fought hard and lost a great many men to capture the city of Ioannina from the Turkish army. In the city of Ioannina alone thirty thousand Turkish soldiers surrendered to the Greek army upon its capture. On the 13th of February 1913 the Greek army marched into Ioannina. The city's population danced in the streets in jubilation over the liberation cheering on the Greek army to further victories.
The Greek navy also shared many victories in the Aegean Sea with its admiral Paulos Kountouriotis. The navy managed to liberate the island of Lemnos and trapped the Turkish navy in the Dardanelles. The Turkish navy tried many times to break out but was not successful. The inability of the Turks to leave from the Dardanelles assured the liberation of the Aegean Islands. One by one the islands of the Aegean fell to the Greeks Samos, Chios, Lesvos, Imbros, Tenedos and many others.
The Bulgarians now approached the outskirts of Constantinople. The Turks fearing a catastrophe which would result in them even losing their capital surrendered. The Ottomans gave up practically all their holdings in the Balkans accept a little strip of land that surrounded their capital.
As a result of the war Greece received the islands of the Aegean excluding the Dodecanese, Southern Epirus, Macedonia, and Crete. The national conscience was restored with these victories and nearly all the Greeks in Europe were now free. Greece received nearly all the territory it demanded yet one prize it did not get "Northern Epirus". Until this day Northern Epirus resides in foreign hands with Albania, the community of several hundred thousand Greeks living their never managing to make their dream of uniting with their homeland come true.
Bulgaria was not satisfied with the peace treaty and as a result Greece and Serbia joined together attacking Bulgaria in the Second Balkan War. Though the Second Balkan War was much shorter then the first it was much more bloody and vicious..
The Second Balkan War
Only a few days passed after the end of the First Balkan War before the victorious allied forces of Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro began to quarrel. The main cause of the Second Balkan War was the greediness of the Bulgarians. The Bulgarians were unsatisfied with the peace deal, and believed they deserved more territory then what they had received. They asked the other allies to secede some of their territory. Most notably they asked from Greece the capital city of Macedonia "Thessalonica" and from Serbia "Monastir".
Naturally the stance of Bulgaria brought fear to the other members of the alliance as Bulgaria was very powerful. It had established a very large and powerful army as a result of foreign assistance and clearly had an ability to fight all the other members on its own.
Bulgaria's stance became more and more unreasonable and aggressive towards the other allies as the days went on. The allies decided that it was time to act and Serbia, Greece and Montenegro met in a secret meeting. At the secret meeting it was decided that their was no choice and a war would have to occur to secure the peace treaty. In such, on 17th of June 1913 Serbia, Greece and Montenegro launched a massive coordinated surprise attack on Bulgaria.
The Greek army at this time had been strengthened considerably by volunteers from various countries outside Greece. The Greek army rushed to face the Bulgarians with great heroism and courage. Though Bulgaria fought side by side with the Greeks in the first Balkan War they clearly were not friends.
The Greek soldiers were jubilant at the thought of fighting against the Bulgarians. The hatred towards the Bulgarians was considerable on the Greek side as a result of thousands upon thousands of Greeks having been slaughtered by the Bulgarians in a futile attempt by the Bulgarians to change the "ethnic Greek" character of Macedonia only ten years earlier. The Greeks were ready to avenge the attempted genocide of their people in Macedonia at hands of the Bulgarians only ten years earlier, see Paulos Melas.
The Second Balkan War (cont'd)
The Greek army first contact with the Bulgarian army was in the city of Thessalonica where the Bulgarian army had been allowed to enter by the Greek army to rest. In the city of Thessalonica the Bulgarians were forced to surrender.
On the 19th of June a large battle began at Kilkis between the Bulgarian and Greek forces. The Bulgarians had created a very strong defense around Kilkis. Trench after trench with barbed wire guarded the Bulgarian positions from the Greek advance. The Greek soldiers moved across the trenches in a battle that lasted three whole days. The soldiers removed the wiring with their bayonets as they moved forward only to meet one Bulgarian position after another. The Greek soldiers fought heroically man to man and suffered many casualties. However, the casualties on the Bulgarian side were so much more that it was a literal disaster for the Bulgarians.
The Bulgarian front completely collapsed in front of other similar victories and one by one the cities of Geugeli, Nigrita, Doirani etc fell to the advancing Greek army. In less then one month the Greeks managed to liberate all of Macedonia and had advanced into Bulgaria. The Greek army now approached the capital city of Bulgaria which was sure to fall to the Greek army.
The other allies had similar victories against the Bulgarian forces. When all seemed without hope for the Bulgarians a further disaster struck them when Romania and the Ottoman Empire decided that it was time to benefit at Bulgaria's expense. Romania and the Ottoman Empire both declared war on Bulgaria and invaded it.
The Bulgarians fearing that their country would cease to exist surrendered, and on the 28th of July 1913 "The Treaty of Bucharest" was signed formally ending the war. Greece received even more territory, receiving the rest of Epirus (excluding northern Epirus) and eastern Macedonia up to the Rhodope and Nestos.
As a result of these wars Greece gained a new standing in the world community. Greece had liberated much of the territory it so dearly wanted. The population and area of Greece doubled nearly over night. A jubilation swept throughout Greece as territories which could not be liberated from Ottoman occupation for nearly one hundred years now formed part of Greece.
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VetLegion
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quote:
The end result was a revolution by the military that overthrew the Greek government on the 15th of August 1909.
The overthrow of the government was widely accepted throughout Greece and brought a new sense of pride to the nation |
Yes I know you have a long tradition of dictatorships. When is the next one scheduled? :zzzz:
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
quote:
The end result was a revolution by the military that overthrew the Greek government on the 15th of August 1909.
The overthrow of the government was widely accepted throughout Greece and brought a new sense of pride to the nation |
Yes I know you have a long tradition of dictatorships. When is the next one scheduled? :zzzz: |
err sorry but you're,err, you know... ex-yugoslavian?
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05-06-2003 00:15
), Tito created the "macedonian state" after 1945 with clear intentions to enter the West untill Russia kicked your face in in this regard with a bit of persuasion from the west.
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