05-06-2003 08:17									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 no no spiffor, it was a joke. if race is a socially constructed concept then i am in fact black and not white as my skin would lead to you to believe. i fashion myself as "superfly tnt dolemite".

You're explosive magnesium carbonate?

	05-06-2003 08:18									#32
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quote: Originally posted by GePap If what you mean by race are shallow and temporary (obviosuly not in the time span of individual, who are generally meaningless) characteristics designed to make you more successful in you current environment? Then yes, under this definition race exists. If you believe race to be anything more than this, well, then no, that type of race does not exist.

If you delete the 'shallow and temporary' part, then , yes thats not a bad definition

	05-06-2003 08:22									#33
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quote: Originally posted by GePap God, what an annoyingly stupid argument! Human populations slowly adapt to the environment. If a population stays in the same place for millenia, it will adapt to that area. But most changes are only skin deep. Deeper changes are answer to different microscopic environments, which in general are very closely tied to the general environment. If what you mean by race are shallow and temporary (obviosuly not in the time span of individual, who are generally meaningless) characteristics designed to make you more successful in you current environment? Then yes, under this definition race exists. If you believe race to be anything more than this, well, then no, that type of race does not exist.

No need to let emotions run over from the next thread.

Oh, and your definition of race perfectly fits mine. Thanks!

	05-06-2003 08:27									#34
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The emotion are form this thread, not that one. Caligastia has a thing with race. Oh, and MTR made the same arguement first.

	05-06-2003 08:34									#35
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The emotion are form this thread, not that one. Caligastia has a thing with race. Oh, and MTR made the same arguement first.

Yes, nothing from that point onwards convinced me that there is no "race"?

In fact, in your last post you just positively affirmed that there is.

	05-06-2003 08:41									#36
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If races were that different, breeding between the races would be impossible.

I wouldn't exist...I'm part Native American.

	05-06-2003 08:44									#37
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quote: How strange that white South Africans still exist. I guess they just have really good sunblock.

Last I checked white skin retains nutrients from the sun better than black skin.

Those Boers must cook!

	05-06-2003 08:46									#38
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous If races were that different, breeding between the races would be impossible. I wouldn't exist...I'm part Native American.

Races arn't THAT different. Species are.

	05-06-2003 08:54									#39
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Rcae exists because we need it. Humans have this need to categorize things when the universe doesnt really have a neatly organized categories, so there's always gonna be arguments for what goes into which category and why such categorization exists etc....

Anyways IMO Race is primarily determined by ancestry than genetic pool. It may sound the same, but genetics would mean each race has unique genetic pool while ancestry would not consider that.

Race being defined by certain genetic pool doesnt really hold for me because socially certain white ppl are "blacker" and certain "whiter" black ppl.

If its ancestry though, black population that eventually develops "white" characteristics will still be considered black because of ancestry. Or maybe we would give them a different category.

	05-06-2003 09:02									#40
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Look, race exists. On some level, there is some gene acting differently in black people than in white people. Get over it. Nobody cares except the extreme left and the extreme right.

	05-06-2003 09:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Races arn't THAT different. Species are.

...and even the definition of what constitutes a species can be rather nebulous.

Run a search on "ring species" if you want to see what I mean; gulls, in particular, are a real doozy.

	05-06-2003 09:22									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Caligastia has a thing with race.

He's white, blue eyed and has blonde hair. He also seems quite an insecure mousy kind of person.

Join the dots yourself.

	05-06-2003 09:27									#43
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk ...and even the definition of what constitutes a species can be rather nebulous. Run a search on "ring species" if you want to see what I mean; gulls, in particular, are a real doozy.

Like I said, We're trying to categorize our universe just because we arent so comfortable with things being just the way they are.

	05-06-2003 09:58									#44
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Caligastia obviously hates blacks. You can't blame him if he had been mugged or gang-banged by them.

	05-06-2003 10:02									#45
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Another Cali thread on race.
Repeat after me Cali:
Race is an artificial unscientific attempt to divide a wide and gradual spectrum of skin colours into three categories, or four, or five, or six. It serves no scientific purpose.

	05-06-2003 12:18									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Another thread by Cal on race.

Sheets in the laundry tonight? Got a couple of holes in the pillowcase? You sure are obsessive about this subject. Or just your choice of trolls and you're pulling everyone's chain for the umpteenth time?


Mitochondrial DNA is used extensively to document genetic differences between populations of individuals. Race is an alleged group characteristic, so DNA common to entire populations (mitochondrial) is more useful than cellular DNA.

Kirnwaffen - pigmentation differences exist, not race. (Big difference). Even inbreeding and genetic isolation exist. (Kilimanjaro lions ) Still a difference from the idea of X number of distinct groups. The problem with the idea of "race" is that there is no possible set of dividing lines which are consistent. You can take three people who are radically different in skin pigmentation - say Cal, Shaq, and Yo Yo Ma, and come up with some difference, sure. But try to do it with the whole human species, and things break down.

If something can't be defined in a consistent way, it has no scientific use. If it's just a cultural or social convention, then it's not an actual attribute of the people classed as being one race or another, it's an attitude or perception of the people doing the classification. You're right, to the extent you mean "the notion of race exists, that's undeniable.

	05-06-2003 13:41									#47
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I'm dating a "half black" chick who acts "white" and hangs out with "yellows"...

yeah...

who gives a rat's ass about "race"?

	05-06-2003 14:50									#48
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I get the feeling that Caligastia's obsessed with that "Huge Appendage" gene that he thinks all non-whites possess.

	05-06-2003 15:09									#49
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Woohoo! Go South American Women! You showed them in the Miss Universe contest were the prettiest girls live!

	05-06-2003 15:22									#50
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There was a similar test on the discovery channel last night, when Eddie Izzard (!) rounded up English northerners and southerners and tested their DNA (actually their Y chromosomes since they are passed down direstly from father to son). They found that the northerners had twice as many genes in common with scandinavians than southerners.

This was supposed to show that England used to be divided into an anglo-saxon part and a 'viking' part, Danelaw. The interesting bit, imo, was that the towns they took them from were both very close to the anglo-saxon/Danelaw dividing line, showing that the populations were rather polarised.

	05-06-2003 15:41									#51
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quote: There was a similar test on the discovery channel last night, when Eddie Izzard (!) rounded up English northerners and southerners and tested their DNA (actually their Y chromosomes since they are passed down direstly from father to son). They found that the northerners had twice as many genes in common with scandinavians than southerners. This was supposed to show that England used to be divided into an anglo-saxon part and a 'viking' part, Danelaw. The interesting bit, imo, was that the towns they took them from were both very close to the anglo-saxon/Danelaw dividing line, showing that the populations were rather polarised.

Might explain why a typical southerner has longer, spiked hair that is blonde-tipped (similar to gay Europeans) and northerners tend to have skin-heads.

	05-06-2003 15:43									#52
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i didnt know the UK was so polorized between skinheads and homosexuals.

	05-06-2003 15:47									#53
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It's all the continentals. At least they tend to stop in London, keeping most of the north clean.

	05-06-2003 15:48									#54
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i didnt know the UK was so polorized between skinheads and homosexuals.

Only in Bods mind. He probaly thinks there aren't any Gay people up north

	05-06-2003 15:54									#55
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i can just imagine bods leading a hitler youth march through the roads scotland.

	05-06-2003 15:58									#56
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"Only in Bods mind. He probaly thinks there aren't any Gay people up north"

Either there are fewer, or southerners are a lot more camp.

	05-06-2003 19:34									#57
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The thing about this "race" business is it has no corresponding biological distinction. The difference between various human races are far smaller than between dog breeds. So some people got black skin, some other have yellow skin. And?

	05-06-2003 19:36									#58
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Because it can affect policy decisions; ie reverse racism, etc.

	05-06-2003 19:40									#59
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quote: Kirnwaffen - pigmentation differences exist, not race. (Big difference).

Guess it depends largely on how deeply you define race. I've never defined it in a way that goes beyond skin color, so I guess I've never quite understood why this debate is necessary.

	05-06-2003 19:45									#60
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk ...and even the definition of what constitutes a species can be rather nebulous. Run a search on "ring species" if you want to see what I mean; gulls, in particular, are a real doozy.

cheers , gull were the subject of the first link I googled, very interesting