07-06-2003 05:28									#31
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quote: how would Belarus be a threat for Sweden?

Not a threat, but a nuisance to EU in general. Do a Google-search on "lukashenko", that would be a start.

If US goverment would've had any backbone or morals to their claimed ethics, they would've put Belarus in the Axis of Evil. Dictators who misuse their power should be dealt with.

	07-06-2003 05:32									#32
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I know the fella. Aren't they already vassals to Russia anyway?

	07-06-2003 05:36									#33
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quote: I know the fella. Aren't they already vassals to Russia anyway?

I've been under the impression that Lukashenko insists to have Belarus as a part of Russia, but Putin doesn't take let them in, because he mostly disagrees with his nationalist talk behind the public's eye.

But that's my biased opinion, which based on their past actions.

	07-06-2003 05:37									#34
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Putin wouldn't have to bother with that crap if he just annexed Belarus.

The reason must be he wants to make a show off military annexing Belarus.

Increases BB a lot more though.

	07-06-2003 05:39									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Can't you just drop conscription and have a professional army ? It's great you know...

Conscription is wrong.

	07-06-2003 05:49									#36
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Peaceful conscription should go... but conscription during war time, when it is absolutely needed, isn't wrong, IMO.

Though women should be at the front lines as much as men. Equality, dammit

	07-06-2003 06:51									#37
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Hot, heavy breasted Swedish babes in low cut camo with superior firepower...

	07-06-2003 08:36									#38
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and short shorts

	07-06-2003 09:20									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Peaceful conscription should go... but conscription during war time, when it is absolutely needed, isn't wrong, IMO. Though women should be at the front lines as much as men. Equality, dammit

Conscription never! If an invasion can't get your people to the front lines voluntarily, then the country isn't worth saving. Conscription is always wrong. Period.

As for war time, well with the war on drugs, terrorism, etc. the US always seems to be at wartime. No excuses. If King George can't raise a volunteer army, then he doesn't get his war.

	07-06-2003 09:24									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu If US goverment would've had any backbone or morals to their claimed ethics, they would've put Belarus in the Axis of Evil. Dictators who misuse their power should be dealt with.

Stopping evil dictators! Yeah right! I tell you what. The minute King George stands up to the Chinese and liberates Tibet, he's got my vote. Seriously. If Dubya believed his rhetoric, he'll liberate Tibet - despite the amount of business we do with China. At least impose sanctions!

	07-06-2003 09:26									#41
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Templar, be quiet.. your attitude let alone faulty rhetoric is just nonsense.

Let people have their opininons. You can challenge them but not engage in a smear campaign against others. You have done this to me and ran like a dog with its tail between its legs.

	07-06-2003 09:32									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Templar, be quiet.. your attitude let alone faulty rhetoric is just nonsense. Let people have their opininons. You can challenge them but not engage in a smear campaign against others. You have done this to me and ran like a dog with its tail between its legs.

So Fez rears his 70s head again! What the hell are you talking about , "smear campaign"? Are you pro-conscription and pro-Chinese now? Just put me back in your ignore file before I intellectually spank you again.

	07-06-2003 09:34									#43
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar So Fez rears his 70s head again! What the hell are you talking about , "smear campaign"? Are you pro-conscription and pro-Chinese now? Just put me back in your ignore file before I intellectually spank you again.

No I am neither, I am just saying let Imran has his opinions without insulting him...

You intellectually spank me? I defeated you in that debate so badly it wasn't even funny.

70s Head?

	07-06-2003 09:41									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Fez No I am neither, I am just saying let Imran has his opinions without insulting him...

Why insult him - he's one of the people around here with something intelligent to say. I disagree with him on conscription. Hardly an insult

quote: 70s Head?

You thilly Thpanyard you (from Madrid?)! Your name is 'Fez' and you have a picture of that character as your avatar.

	07-06-2003 09:44									#45
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Why insult him - he's one of the people around here with something intelligent to say. I disagree with him on conscription. Hardly an insult

Maybe what I mean came out wrong. But your rhetoric is very harsh on him.

quote: You thilly Thpanyard you (from Madrid?)! Your name is 'Fez' and you have a picture of that character as your avatar.

Fez is cute okay... I have had a crush on him for ages.. there.. that is why I have him as my avatar.

	07-06-2003 11:11									#46
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Surprise I didn't read one word of this thread. Becauise my head guerst. But, I'm all for this. I think this is the first stepo to real power of equality.

	07-06-2003 12:31									#47
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Conscription can be ok, if done properly. And everyone should be conscripted on the same level.

	07-06-2003 13:21									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui .... Though women should be at the front lines as much as men. Equality, dammit

I must admit, that's the one place we don't put female soldiers. They can fire artillery pieces, they can be engineers, but we don't let them in the front line forces.

It's just not fair to the enemy.

OK, the real reason is because of the morale hit when female soldiers take casualties. It's bad enough them dying, but when they come home looking like Simon Weston it's very bad for the rest of the troops. It does nothing to keep discipline, which is one of the few strong points of the UK army (it certainly isn't most of the equipment).

	07-06-2003 14:57									#49
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Here's to Lancer and MRT: the future Swedish Elite Troops

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	07-06-2003 15:16									#50
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I used to be for a professional army but I've recently been convinced that National Service is the way to go. Do you want all the firepower and combat expertise in the country concentrated with a bunch of extreme-right-wing gun nuts or with the people in general? A nicely balanced, National Service army should theoretically make military coups impossible, and would allow the citizens to rise up and fight any attempt at establishing dictatorship.

	07-06-2003 15:20									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Here's to Lancer and MRT: the future Swedish Elite Troops

sylvia saint is czech though

	07-06-2003 15:39									#52
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Buck: I agree with you, but since there is no military threat against Sweden I think it's wrong to force people into military service. As long as there is conscription though, everyone should be drafted, if we are supposed to be equal.

MRT: Thanks for the kind correction, I guess it's not my area of expertise

	07-06-2003 15:57									#53
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believe me, knowledge like that is a curse

	07-06-2003 16:29									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre Today, only the Feminist Leftist party and the Green Environmentalists supports female conscription, which is about 15 % of the parliament. If the governing Social Democrats join their side, there will be a majority supporting the suggestion.

this is strange. I always thought feminists would be against a women conscription while the Greens would be against any conscription army at all.

I don´t know much about Sweden but probably you will need more than just a single majority in parliament for inventing a women conscription. does your constitution allow this kind of a reform?

quote: The part of the male population who are choosen for service has dropped significantly after the end of the cold war. Back in the 80's when I served, 80-90% went to military service, while today, only 30-40% goes. The strange thing is that people who are choosen but refuse could get jail, while people who want to go are frequently refused. The laws of conscription need some revison in any case.

many European countries still running a conscription army have this problem. now consider. if you decide to draft women as well, injustice will even increase significantally. this alone makes me believe that this idea will be dropped soon again.

some European countries think about abolishing the drafting system these days. others (France, Netherlands, Spain) have abolished it already. the reason is obvious. cold war is over and there is no military threat anymore which can be faced with a mass army. and a drafting system for out of area missions (only) is as absurd as unreasonable in a democratic country.

conscription is injust in itself and it won´t become juster if women will also be drafted. conscription made mass destruction wars like wwI, wwII or vietnam war possible. military leaders don´t care about soldier's lifes as long as they know they have enough soldiers in replacement.
conscription is bad for the economy as well.
I´m amazed that Sweden still has a conscription army, anyway. you do better by dropping it in total.

	07-06-2003 17:54									#55
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quote: and a drafting system for out of area missions (only) is as absurd as unreasonable in a democratic country

but if you abolish conscription you have to abolish Civil Service too..

	07-06-2003 18:41									#56
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In Israel more men try to avoid military service, than females do.

	07-06-2003 18:43									#57
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From a moral standpoint I'm very much for having equal conscripts for men and women. Less women than men would probably be picked as the armed forces is far from training everyone as it is. But, hey, they considered me to be good enough and in that case women should have a decent chance of doing the same.

I went into real rage in front of the TV weeks ago when a women from the social democrats (I can't remember her name) stated that it wasn't unfair that women got all the possibilites that men have but should be forced to service as they gave birth to children. As far as I know, giving birth, is a personal and volountary decision. Back in the days of the 30s and 40s a country to the south of Sweden gave medals to women that had a lot of kids. Now, however, giving birth to future soldiers is not an obligation.

I'm not that much a fan of switching to a professional army. As I see it, the function's to have enough people with guns to make an invasion costly. They shouldn't invade any other countries.

	07-06-2003 18:52									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Here's to Lancer and MRT: the future Swedish Elite Troops

Sylvia Saint with something big and phallic in her hands. Why am I not surprised?

	07-06-2003 18:58									#59
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I don't believe in conscription at all, but if conscription is insisted upon it should be on an equal basis.

	07-06-2003 19:10									#60
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in no country and in no time ever there was something like an equal conscription.
people weren´t drafted because they were privileged (like in France under Napoleon, in Germany from FreddyII-Hitler, or just think of Gerorge W. Bush), or rich enough, so they payed a fee for not being drafted (Turkey today), or they were lucky or smart enough to escape (Germany today, Sweden most likely too).
an equal conscription - with or without women - is nothing but an illusion.