11-06-2003 02:09									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I agree with the loose guidelines, but voting by faction is only good when it comes to the actual game, not to outside things, such as timings.

Individuals that drop a comment here and there don't have to get the turn out . . . the spokesperson of the faction does. Timing of a turn is a FACTIONAL issue as the leader has to ensure certain things are done-- the passers-by have no responsibilities ( just "rights" apparently)

So what you folks are saying is that if, hypothetically, three factions each spoke out and said that 48 hours was a reasonable timeframe they could meet given their internal structure and decision making methods, the rule would be set at 24 if the "majority" said so ?? The fact that 3 factions had said that they could not meet that timeframe regularly would be irrelevant ?? ( Remeber gang that we are in the early and easy days-- My PBEM turns are 5 minutes at this early stage of a game but they get to be over an hour later on and thats in games where I have to consult No one)

	11-06-2003 02:18									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber So what you folks are saying is that if, hypothetically, three factions each spoke out and said that 48 hours was a reasonable timeframe they could meet given their internal structure and decision making methods, the rule would be set at 24 if the "majority" said so ??

Excellent point, which why I am opting for a longer time period than the current 24 hours. That's just too short.

	11-06-2003 02:21									#33
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Well I'd vote 24 hours now, but the period should be increased as time increases.

	11-06-2003 02:21									#34
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Flubber Individuals that drop a comment here and there don't have to get the turn out . . . the spokesperson of the faction does. Timing of a turn is a FACTIONAL issue as the leader has to ensure certain things are done-- the passers-by have no responsibilities ( just "rights" apparently) So what you folks are saying is that if, hypothetically, three factions each spoke out and said that 48 hours was a reasonable timeframe they could meet given their internal structure and decision making methods, the rule would be set at 24 if the "majority" said so ?? The fact that 3 factions had said that they could not meet that timeframe regularly would be irrelevant ?? ( Remeber gang that we are in the early and easy days-- My PBEM turns are 5 minutes at this early stage of a game but they get to be over an hour later on and thats in games where I have to consult No one)

But we non-leaders are not all that irresponsible as you feared. Why would I want my team leader to make hurried and unfounded decisions simply because I don't have to actually play the turn? If "3 factions each spoke out and said that 48 hours was a reasonable timeframe they could meet given their internal structure and decision making methods", I believe that the "majority" would not have said otherwise unless you assume that most members of your teams will disregard their own teams' interests.

Plus, after looking at the result of the polls and reading all the discussions, does one really have to worry about things that will not happen?

	11-06-2003 02:33									#35
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Personally, I think a better way to handle the whole timing issue would have been to ask each faction what time frame they felt they could usually return the turn and then ask what timeframe thay felt they could almost always meet. The answers, from the people that actually play the turn, would be realistic and you could go from there to make a guideline. A strict rule is harsh IMHO. I predict there will be times the turn may take longer than any limit you set. To penalize a team that is doing its best and regularly getting the turn out just seems counter-productive to me.

	11-06-2003 02:57									#36
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu But we non-leaders are not all that irresponsible as you feared. Why would I want my team leader to make hurried and unfounded decisions simply because I don't have to actually play the turn? If "3 factions each spoke out and said that 48 hours was a reasonable timeframe they could meet given their internal structure and decision making methods", I believe that the "majority" would not have said otherwise unless you assume that most members of your teams will disregard their own teams' interests. Plus, after looking at the result of the polls and reading all the discussions, does one really have to worry about things that will not happen?

I don't assume irresponsibility of anyone but I do assume that many people will have different PBEM experience and different real life situations. I have also assumed that the factions may not be homogenous in their makeup or in the availability of their leaders and key players.



In real life I'm a lawyer, its my job to worry about things that may never happen because guess what, they often do. I object to the method of decision making because there may come a time where there is a contentious issue and the one-person one-vote scenario is a recipe for a smaller faction to get shafted.

Do I think people will be evil or confrontational? Not really . . . But I am already seeing people discussing pretty harsh "penalties" for " infractions" so it isn't all "lets play nice" and lets get along.

I like the results of this poll ( but think there are occasions where a faction should be able to go outside even a 48 hour limit without penalty), but the fact that I agree with the outcome does not legitimize the process. Fundamentally, I see this game now as FIVE democracy games inside a PBEM . . . now that the game is commenced and teams are set up, I see the FIVE players as being the ones that should make decisions. Out here, its a 5 player roleplaying game and I see it as little different than if 5 individuals were playing.

	11-06-2003 03:56									#37
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Well regardless of the official time limit, I will make it clear here and how that official Hive policy will be to get the turn done in 24 hours max (unless extenuating circumstances exist). There is fundamentally no reason why the turn cannot be done soon after its posted since either myself or Jamski are online. And the decisions have already been made in the turn thread.

Here's a hint, make the general decisions beforehand and thus the rater at which the turns will be completed naturally will hasten. There always exist unforeseeable circumstanced that may arise in game that require consultation, but these situations do not occur on every turn. There fundamentally exists no reason why the teams cannot get the turn completed in 24 hours of it being posted.

	11-06-2003 04:24									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Well regardless of the official time limit, I will make it clear here and how that official Hive policy will be to get the turn done in 24 hours max (unless extenuating circumstances exist). There is fundamentally no reason why the turn cannot be done soon after its posted since either myself or Jamski are online. And the decisions have already been made in the turn thread. Here's a hint, make the general decisions beforehand and thus the rater at which the turns will be completed naturally will hasten. There always exist unforeseeable circumstanced that may arise in game that require consultation, but these situations do not occur on every turn. There fundamentally exists no reason why the teams cannot get the turn completed in 24 hours of it being posted.

we already did make plans ahead of time and some turns have been played with zero consultation as none was needed but there still can be circumstances where 24 hours is too short and I deplore us becoming rule bound in this way.

	11-06-2003 04:43									#39
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Of course, if everyone gangs up and eliminates the Uni, then the game will speed up doublefold ......... No?

(in other words,

then =

G. ( )

	11-06-2003 12:40									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

* Jamski loves GooglieGod

-Jam

	11-06-2003 14:54									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber To penalize a team that is doing its best and regularly getting the turn out just seems counter-productive to me.

Yes, Googlie sees what is going on with the factions. Let's not get bogged down setting out stiff mandatory penalties.

	12-06-2003 09:14									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Of course, if everyone gangs up and eliminates the Uni, then the game will speed up doublefold ......... No? (in other words, then = G. ( )

Googliegod, it is unethical for a god to promote war and/or chaos in human sections for the purpose of experiment.

	12-06-2003 23:07									#43
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Remember that the Earth is really Manifold Seven and the humans the result of one of our Progenitor genetic experiment gone sadly wrong.

	13-06-2003 04:11									#44
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Progenitors probably had too much fungus abuse then.