26-06-2003 05:52									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy What's to remember? The Ferrengi could hustle them under the table with both eyes closed and their arms tied behind their back.

I think not.

Now, they might join in a mutually beneficial partnership....

	26-06-2003 05:56									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar GePap, ignoring for the momemt That Shadow Battlecrabs were chewed all the fudge up by Megaton yield nukes.... I put that option in there as kinda a joke.

Oh, I'm sorry if the guys who wrote my show actually gived a damn about reality...

The forces in B5 could take out the forces of Star Trek, so if you are actually syaing that one could compare Trek to SW, and B5 trumps Trek, then B5 has as much right to compete as Trek.

The Vorlons clould match imperial firepower, at least in one way (big beam weapons that can blow planets to smitherens), while nothing in Trek comes close.

	26-06-2003 05:58									#33
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quote: Originally posted by GePap (big beam weapons that can blow planets to smitherens), while nothing in Trek comes close.

They have those. They don't know who created it but they've got those in the Trek Universe.

	26-06-2003 05:58									#34
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the storm trooper weapons have 3 settings

1.never hit
2.always miss
3.jam/malfunction

	26-06-2003 05:59									#35
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Exactly.

	26-06-2003 05:59									#36
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Oh, I'm sorry if the guys who wrote my show actually gived a damn about reality... The forces in B5 could take out the forces of Star Trek, so if you are actually syaing that one could compare Trek to SW, and B5 trumps Trek, then B5 has as much right to compete as Trek. The Vorlons clould match imperial firepower, at least in one way (big beam weapons that can blow planets to smitherens), while nothing in Trek comes close.

I didn't say B5
But no, if First one ships get ripped apart by Megatone Fusion weapons, a Turbolaser is going to destroy them.

	26-06-2003 06:01									#37
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 the storm trooper weapons have 3 settings 1.never hit 2.always miss 3.jam/malfunction

Really? They stormed Princess Leia's ship pretty well.

They were also wiping out the Ewoks until Chewie got the AT-ST.

And they were more than fairly accurate at the Battle of Geonosis.

So, Nya-nya!

Say, you aren't going to change my results for the "I'm with Stupid" game, are you?

	26-06-2003 06:03									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar And they were more than fairly accurate at the Battle of Geonosis.

That was the first generation. The years haven't been kind to them.

	26-06-2003 06:04									#39
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they didnt wipe out enough damn ewoks! when it comes to people of importance they are incompetent though. and thats who you need to take out first in a war, the leaders. everything else just follows from there.

lonestar, your results speak for themselves, no need to edit

	26-06-2003 06:04									#40
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Given the manuverability of Imperial ships and thier lines of fire, while Shadow vessel may not have shield, good luck in hitting them that often.
besides, all the shadows have to do is surround any imperial fleet they meet with their planet killer and have the nanos just suck out the power and desroy the ships that way.Oh, and the Shadows are just one of the First ones, not all of them. Their ships were on the whole weaker than Vorlon ships, for example.

quote: They have those. They don't know who created it but they've got those in the Trek Universe.

if you can;t even remember who has them, whats the point?

O, and by the way, you mean speciaes something something something, which could link several of thier ships together to blow planets up. In theory, they are the most powerfull race weaponswise in Trek, but they aren't particualrly eager to join any wars in non-fluidic dimensions.

	26-06-2003 06:06									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 they didnt wipe out enough damn ewoks! when it comes to people of importance they are incompetent though. and thats who you need to take out first in a war, the leaders. everything else just follows from there. lonestar, your results speak for themselves, no need to edit

I'm trying to respond to fricking GePap's post, but for some reason it keeps chopping stuff out.

	26-06-2003 06:06									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GePap O, and by the way, you mean speciaes something something something, which could link several of thier ships together to blow planets up.

No. I'm refering to the TOS episode where Kirk fought a planet killer. They had to ram a Constitution class ship down its throat to kill it.

	26-06-2003 06:10									#43
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That was some type of speace beast (forget if it was made or just grown), not the ship of a sentient race in that sense.

	26-06-2003 06:10									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Given the manuverability of Imperial ships and thier lines of fire, while Shadow vessel may not have shield, good luck in hitting them that often.

Unless The Shadow ship gets directly aft of the main engine, It'll be hit by one of the 120 TL turrets. And it will be hit by the 70+ TIEs.

Asuuming, of course, that it's escorts wouldn't hit it.

quote: besides, all the shadows have to do is surround any imperial fleet they meet with their planet killer and have the nanos just suck out the power and desroy the ships that way.

Suck out the power?

I do know the shadow Death cloud used Nuclear tipped missiles, and if a Rebel converted cruise liner can withstand dozens of Nukes ( from ROTJ novelization) then a Battleship certainly can.

quote: Oh, and the Shadows are just one of the First ones, not all of them. Their ships were on the whole weaker than Vorlon ships, for example.

Vorlon Ships were trashed during the last battle by Megaton nukes too.

	26-06-2003 06:12									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No. I'm refering to the TOS episode where Kirk fought a planet killer. They had to ram a Constitution class ship down its throat to kill it.

"Grand Admiral, there's a big ole cone heading this way."

"Give it a broadside."

Ka-boom!

In any event, it's non-existant, unless you want to set the Milky Way date as Late 23rd century....

	26-06-2003 06:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GePap That was some type of speace beast

Really? I was under the impression it was an artificial construct.

I like how Lonestar is ignoring the incompetence of stormtroopers now.

	26-06-2003 06:17									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Really? I was under the impression it was an artificial construct. I like how Lonestar is ignoring the incompetence of stormtroopers now.

Look 9 posts up, highspeed.

So, describe the Large combined Arms army that the Federation...Klingons...Dominion...hell, anyone has for me.

	26-06-2003 06:18									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Unless The Shadow ship gets directly aft of the main engine, It'll be hit by one of the 120 TL turrets. And it will be hit by the 70+ TIEs. Asuuming, of course, that it's escorts wouldn't hit it.

TIE fighters are not very impressive, and the shadows have their own. And ISD do have limited arcs of fire, which is a huge disadvatnge. Also, their weapons fire blats, not prolonged beams. I am sure the Shadows could oevrwhelm shield geenrators in key parts of imperial ships and blow them up, leaving the shpts very vulnerable, specially given that command centers are so convieneintly placed in one exposed location.

quote: Suck out the power? I do know the shadow Death cloud used Nuclear tipped missiles, and if a Rebel converted cruise liner can withstand dozens of Nukes ( from ROTJ novelization) then a Battleship certainly can.

IN the last battle in B5 between the allience and the Vorlons and Shadows, the Shadow planet killer engulfed the allience fleet and begun to suck out the power of all their ships. Oh,and the missiles carried are multi-gigaton wepaons, much more powerful than the average photon torpedo. Plus they were designed to drill deep into planets. If they can travel 300 miles through solid rock and them the pressures inside a planet, well, I am sure they can deal with SD's.

quote: Vorlon Ships were trashed during the last battle by Megaton nukes too.

As i said, excuse the B5 writers for not just adding magic shields to all the ships.

	26-06-2003 06:20									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Look 9 posts up, highspeed. So, describe the Large combined Arms army that the Federation...Klingons...Dominion...hell, anyone has for me.

Well, earthforce has one. I don;t know about the other races. The Minbari have a warrior caste and I must assume they know how to fight wars then.

	26-06-2003 06:21									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar "Grand Admiral, there's a big ole cone heading this way." "Give it a broadside."

How would that deal with the neutronium hull?

quote: In any event, it's non-existant, unless you want to set the Milky Way date as Late 23rd century....

It's reasonable to assume that they made more than one. Anyway, I only brought it up because GePap said Trek lacked planet killers.

	26-06-2003 06:24									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar So, describe the Large combined Arms army that the Federation...Klingons...Dominion...hell, anyone has for me.

It's a naval show (You should like that). The description of the army has been given the short shrift.

	26-06-2003 06:25									#52
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quote: Originally posted by GePap TIE fighters are not very impressive, and the shadows have their own. And ISD do have limited arcs of fire, which is a huge disadvatnge. Also, their weapons fire blats, not prolonged beams. I am sure the Shadows could oevrwhelm shield geenrators in key parts of imperial ships and blow them up, leaving the shpts very vulnerable, specially given that command centers are so convieneintly placed in one exposed location.

I would wager that if the ISD was really that threatened it would hit the Hyperdrive.

And it's Crusier escorts would be covering it's ass.

quote: IN the last battle in B5 between the allience and the Vorlons and Shadows, the Shadow planet killer engulfed the allience fleet and begun to suck out the power of all their ships.

Can't remember that happening, so I can't comment on it.

quote: Oh,and the missiles carried are multi-gigaton wepaons, much more powerful than the average photon torpedo.

Since A turbolaser Turret cranks out 200 GT a shot, it's safe to say ISD shields would be built to withstand at least several of those impacts.

quote: Plus they were designed to drill deep into planets. If they can travel 300 miles through solid rock and them the pressures inside a planet, well, I am sure they can deal with SD's.

You are wrong!!!!!

quote: As i said, excuse the B5 writers for not just adding magic shields to all the ships.

Stop going off topic!

	26-06-2003 06:31									#53
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quote: Originally posted by a Trektard How would that deal with the neutronium hull?

It would make it 'splode good.

quote: Originally posted by a Trektard It's a naval show (You should like that). The description of the army has been given the short shrift.

In a combined 27 years of Series franchises we have never seen anything to indicate the Federation has a Trained Army.

In DS9, the Klingons had Morters, the Federation didn't.

A "Hopper" was mentioned, but never seen. (Huey analog?)

In the 10 odd Movies with seen one ground vehicle...a jeep. Wee! That'll stop that Walkers, infantry, Gunships, hover scouts, scout bikes, Cloud Cars, Bombers and artillary!

	26-06-2003 06:33									#54
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[on a cold foggy night, Thrawn05 crawls out of his grave. Ready to terrorize Apolyton once more.]

Damn, I go away for a few months and what do I see when I return? A Nerd thread. I guess this is just a dry spell between Civ3 and Civ4.

BTW: Empire rules, rebels suck. End of story.

	26-06-2003 06:34									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Dumbass It would make it 'splode good.

You base this on what exactly?

quote: In a combined 27 years of Series franchises we have never seen anything to indicate the Federation has a Trained Army.

It's a naval show (You should like that). The description of the army has been given the short shrift.

	26-06-2003 06:35									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar I would wager that if the ISD was really that threatened it would hit the Hyperdrive. And it's Crusier escorts would be covering it's ass.

And why would the cruisers still be around?

quote: Can't remember that happening, so I can't comment on it.

It did.

quote: Since A turbolaser Turret cranks out 200 GT a shot, it's safe to say ISD shields would be built to withstand at least several of those impacts.

So it takes several; it will still be destroyed, specially since the shields won;t be working.

quote: You are wrong!!!!!

The inside pressures of a planetary core, or the defenses of a SD?hmmm, which is tougher?

Oh, and in B5 we have telepaths to read your puny imperial minds and mess with them. The force isn;t nearly as good mind reading wise.

oh, and we have God too, to smite yer asses. we aren;t a bunch of aethists (like in Trek) or pagans (like in SW)

	26-06-2003 06:38									#57
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quote: Oh, and in B5 we have telepaths to read your puny imperial minds and mess with them.

The mental powers of the B5 universe are nothing compared to the awe-inspiring abilities of those from the Duneverse.

	26-06-2003 06:41									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You base this on what exactly?

Star Destroyers have Neutronium hulls too. Clearly, 200GT is at or above the magic number to break a neutronium hull.

quote: It's a naval show (You should like that). The description of the army has been given the short shrift.

There's been at least two DS9 episodes where the Army is shown prominiently. They are very poorly organized. And ill-equipped.

So, once the landings begin on a Federation world, that Federation world is hosed.

Assuming it's important enough not to just threaten a BDZ if they don't surrender.

quote: And why would the cruisers still be around

Covering the exit. ISD comes around and kills 'em good.

quote: So it takes several; it will still be destroyed, specially since the shields won;t be working.

I find it unlikely that ISDs would sit still while a big ole cloud is heading towards them.

	26-06-2003 06:42									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The mental powers of the B5 universe are nothing compared to the awe-inspiring abilities of those from the Duneverse.

Are you sad no one is paying attention to you and the Duneverse?

	26-06-2003 06:44									#60
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quote: I find it unlikely that ISDs would sit still while a big ole cloud is heading towards them.

You assume that their sensors would pick it up in time.

Also, I assume that the cloud travels in hyperspace for long jumps: You can;t see something coming form hyperspace, and if it opens a jump point (or just phases back into real space like the shadows do), there is not much the ID's can do.