26-06-2003 06:33									#31
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I saw the pics on CNN today... it didn't make my nipples hard... sorry...

a few pieces of what could be used to built something that could be used to start a weapons program... that was buried since 1992. BOY THAT SURE PRESENTED A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO AMERICA!

	26-06-2003 07:28									#32
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I used to have piles of stuff that looked like that in my shed.

Is the US government going to occupy my house?

And, as for the plans for a nuclear accelerator, you can get anything off the internet these days.

	26-06-2003 07:35									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon And, as for the plans for a nuclear accelerator, you can get anything off the internet these days.

I learned how to avoid a roadblock from a website. Don't knock it!

	26-06-2003 07:45									#34
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quote: Originally posted by GePap So war was necesary to get the Iraqis to hand in 12 empty chemical warheads and old bits burried for 12 years of past nulear porgrams, cause otherwise..what? Give me a break. The inspections, ahd they been allowed to continue would have turned up most of th stuff that had any importance. The other stuff, would have been sidenotes. Stick to the "we liberated the iraqi people" reason, cause the WMD one is really laughable.

You want it to be laughable, but not everyone is laughing.

I for one am not surprised that the regime was keeping bits and pieces around that could be used to refine nuclear material into bomb grade fuel.

And, as you should know if you'd read the article, not all is known yet. As the fellow in the article stated, other technicians and scientists are likely watching him to find out what the implications are for turning stuff in.

Of course, there will be people who will scream outraged indignation no matter what is found. Some of them may even haunt boards like these.

	26-06-2003 07:48									#35
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All right! Part of a gas centrifuge system, unused for 12 years! Then what?

In other news, farmer Dan was arrested today, for possessing large quantities of fertilisers that could be used for explosives.

	26-06-2003 07:52									#36
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DO not underestimate the dangers of centrifuge. My chem professors always emphasize that if it isnt balanced, it could CRACK hurling massive amounts of broken glass everywhere!

We should immediatley check to see if Saddam was importing glass in mass quantity.. then we'll have all the evidence we need!

	26-06-2003 07:53									#37
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You want it to be laughable, but not everyone is laughing. I for one am not surprised that the regime was keeping bits and pieces around that could be used to refine nuclear material into bomb grade fuel.

That centrifuge drum is pathetic. Take a couple of thousand years to purify bomb-size amounts of U235 with it. Looks more like a lab piece than a production model. IIRC the real things are multi-layered and really f*cking big...

BTW: anybody can build a gas centrifuge. It's a pretty simple piece of machinery. Trouble is sheer amount or size of centrifuges needed to make bombs in reasonable time. Output is low, low, low. Need a very large infrastructure. Can't remember how many technicians the US employed at Oak Ridge (?) to purify enough U235 for Hiroshima bomb over the course of a year or two, but IIRC it was in the thousands, and the building they did it in was the largest single structure on Earth at the time.

	26-06-2003 07:54									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Notyoueither, I'm one of these people who still believe that evidence, not opinion, are what matter. Yes, there are people who are still going to piss and moan about every little thing anyone who is not them does - they can sod off - but the fact of the matter is this war, it's "justifications," on top of everything already done by the Bush Administration, WILL be remembered by enough people, both in the halls of power and the general public, that the damage done will affect the USA's near future. Political clout, economic influence, military cooperation. All will be affected to one degree or another. How much? Only time will tell... It's easy for you to sit in Canada and say what you said. Afterall, when was the last time CANADA pissed the whole world off? You've been fortunate that you haven't fallen victim to the ugly mess of Guilt-by-Association with the USA. The UK already had a history in the Middle East, so they've got their own problems with the region; it's my perception that you Canadians haven't really inherited the stigma of bad-blood over there from either country. Must be hard to be Canadian, what with the whole "No one hating us and declaring Jihad on us all the time" racket you got going up there...

Yes, time will tell what effect Iraq had on American and British power. Just remember, no matter how much the radicals shriek, most people just want to get on with their lives. Getting on with their lives means getting along with Yanks and Brits, unfortunately. We've had to deal with one or both of you for a long time.

While on the subject of Canada, we are included in the targets of OBL and his loons. Nope, I don't feel very safe. I doubt the Aussies do either.

As for hard being a Canadian. Not very, but you and the Brits keep getting yourselves in scrapes we have to come drag you out of anyway. We don't need to start the excitement ourselves, we know we can count on you two.

	26-06-2003 07:56									#39
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither While on the subject of Canada, we are included in the targets of OBL and his loons. Nope, I don't feel very safe. I doubt the Aussies do either

I hopw you're kidding. Fear of terrorist attack runs somewhere between fear of killer bees and fear of lightning strikes in my books...

	26-06-2003 08:00									#40
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I'm sure the Aussies in Bali felt the same thing.

	26-06-2003 08:03									#41
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I hopw you're kidding. Fear of terrorist attack runs somewhere between fear of killer bees and fear of lightning strikes in my books...

I've been to Canada a few times and fear of the winter would be top of my list!

I heard a great saying over there a few years ago, "We have three seasons...July, August and winter"

(I think I got it right )

	26-06-2003 08:09									#42
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever I've been to Canada a few times and fear of the winter would be top of my list! I heard a great saying over there a few years ago, "We have three seasons...July, August and winter" (I think I got it right )

The way I've heard it is that Winnipeg has two seasons: Winter and July

	26-06-2003 08:44									#43
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm sure the Aussies in Bali felt the same thing.

AFAIK, that was motivated by Australia's involvement in the independence of East Timor, and has nothing to do with bin Laden, even the fundamentalist group committed the act is supposedly having links with al-Qaeda.

	26-06-2003 08:45									#44
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The way I've heard it is that Winnipeg has two seasons: Winter and July

I heard Winnipeg is okay between May to August, but you have to ask Uncle Sparky.

	26-06-2003 09:16									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Maybe this new "search for WMD" is a cover for a new oil prospecting program. Be interesting to see what turns up under the rosebushes and azaelias.

People who bring up oil as a motivation piss me off... You have just about as much evidence of that as the U.S had about WMD.... which isn't saying much... But i'm still curious whats going to turn up in Iraw wmd wise....

(take the last sentence either way, double meaning... sort of)

quote: Originally posted by Agathon I used to have piles of stuff that looked like that in my shed. Is the US government going to occupy my house?

Probobly

	26-06-2003 11:40									#46
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nukes are not weapons of mass destruction.

There still are no weapons of mass destruction. Bush must pay for this- same with Blair

	26-06-2003 12:36									#47
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12 YEARS AGO?! And then the CIA says that it doesnt mean much of anything!!!!

My thought that they had WoMD is continuously proven wrong.....I feel so stupid for believing they had them.

	26-06-2003 12:45									#48
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither ... The war is over...

Since the fall of Bagdhad, an average of more than one coalition soldier per day has been KIA. The war isn't over, it has just entered the guerilla phase.

	26-06-2003 12:49									#49
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**shrug** I'm willing to give them up to a year to find anything significant in terms of WMD. Saddam had roughly 12 years to disperse whatever he had, and I'm sure there's more than one backyard that contains more than, well, grass.

Gatekeeper

	26-06-2003 16:43									#50
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The pictures have what looks like a single bearing and a hub.

Also, the CIA website had this: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...aq_Oct_2002.htm

It now gives a 404 error, but is cached on Google. From the page:

quote: Based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire, a few tens of thousands of centrifuges would be capable of producing enough highly enriched uranium for a couple of weapons per year.

Is Bush planning to be in power ten thousand years from now?

	26-06-2003 17:54									#51
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There is no doubt in my mind that Iraq was pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

However this evidence doesn't count.

Anybody remember the "supergun" the Iraqis were working on pre-Gulf War 1? Basically it was a big ass cannon that could fire projectiles hundreds of miles...

	26-06-2003 18:00									#52
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Must come as a shock to Al-Baradi, who reported the iraqi nuclear weapons program entierely disposed of.

	26-06-2003 18:10									#53
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quote: There is no doubt in my mind that Iraq was pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

Please share your evidence.

	26-06-2003 18:14									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Anybody remember the "supergun" the Iraqis were working on pre-Gulf War 1? Basically it was a big ass cannon that could fire projectiles hundreds of miles...

You mean the gun that was designed by a Canadian and had its components built in the UK.

	26-06-2003 18:18									#55
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What more evidence do you want?!

Obviously, every Iraqi scientist and army officer has a few parts hidden in his backyard. In a few months they could have dug them up and assembled it into a giant nuclear weapons plant (not to mention all the dirt and rosebushes could be used to camouflage it).

How would you all have liked it then, eh? Building bombs with YOUR name on it!

EDIT: absolutely VITAL changes made to this post.

Last edited by Mercator on 27-06-2003 at 02:01

	26-06-2003 18:50									#56
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maybe the US blew up all the WMD with the complete ass kicking we put on iraq. yeah yeah... cuba could have probably taken iraq - heard it all before.

i'm surprised the US has not just planted false WMD and claimed a success in finding them. Since when is the US honest?!? and why start now!

	26-06-2003 19:02									#57
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Okay, a couple of points:

1.)

quote: "It begins to tell us how huge our job is," Kay said. "Remember, his material was buried in a barrel behind his house in a rose garden. There's no way that that would have been discovered by normal international inspections. I couldn't have done it. My successors couldn't have done it."

Inspector saying that "no way" inspections would have revealed this small piece of the pie.


2.) ALL of the Anthrax that Iraq was said to have could be stored in the space of less than half a semi-trailer.


3.) Saddam was ACTIVELY trying to HIDE his WMD from inspectors pre-war.

4.) Iraq is a country the size of California

5.) Only and idiot would think that the fact that nothing has turned up yet is CONCLUSIVE that they did not exist.

There continues to be small pieces of evidence being uncovered. No particular one is a smoking gun. Together they begin to confirm parts of the picture that was laid out for the case for war. Only time will tell the true story. If you will notice, this particular person has only been on the job a couple of days. It seems that the real assets for being able to discover this stuff may just now be getting in place. As I keep saying over and over...Give it time. Personally, I trust the intelligence gathering ability of the CIA a bit more than that of Poly liberals.

	26-06-2003 19:03									#58
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as usual folks are confusing the Casus bellii with the strategic justification.

"Cant go to war if he is only in technical violation of UN UNSC 1441, thats not a real threat. "

"The possibility of him reconstituting his programs after an unsustainable sanctions/isolation regime falls apart is not justification for war, since theres no basis in international law to attack based on such long strategic views"

To this way of thinking, war would only have been allowed if Saddam was within a few months of actually building nukes. Which he wasnt. But of course this whole approach is illogical.

Legally - he was required under UNSC 1441 to report any equipment for nuclear enrichment. He did not report this equipment, he kept it hidden. He was therefore in violation of UNSC 1441. As all agreed (including France) the ultimate consequnce of this was war. France said that the inspectors could have found everything with more time. Its fairly clear the inspectors wouldnt have found this. Ergo there was Casus belli under UNSC 1441 - case closed.

Strategic - Clearly Saddam had a strategy behind this - he was waiting for the sanctions to fall apart and Iraq to emerge from isolation - which was already happening before 9/11 - and then he intended to reconstitute his nuclear program. This is what many (such as Ken Pollack) said, and this supports that argument. Strategic case supported.

	26-06-2003 19:28									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Well not quite, but I'm sure this will be hyped to the heavens.

This thread is full of straw man arguments; nobody's hailing this as a smoking gun, so I don't know why it's being ridiculed as if it were. It's merely worth reporting.

	26-06-2003 19:44									#60
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quote: 12 empty shells burried in a dump (and found by inspections, no less) do not an argument for war make.

Hi, Yoda.