30-06-2003 07:57									#31
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maybe it's cool how people can pull together and make sacrifices for their country? i dont know... there are some positive aspects of war...

	30-06-2003 07:59									#32
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quote: just expand ur definition of cool. I mean really? its a pretty versatile word for u to be pigeonholing just for the purpose of flaming me. all very petty.

okay... I'll play your game... AIDS IS COOL... STARVATION IS COOL... RAPE AND MURDER IS COOL...

sorry it just doesn't have the same ring to it. how about you learn and speak the english language instead of making stupid assertions.

The fact that you think this is petty is disturbing... but not as disturbing as you thinking "War is cool"... Go to your local marine office, hold up pictures of dead US soldiers and tell them war is cool.

	30-06-2003 08:01									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sava okay... I'll play your game... AIDS IS COOL... STARVATION IS COOL... RAPE AND MURDER IS COOL... sorry it just doesn't have the same ring to it. how about you learn and speak the english language instead of making stupid assertions. The fact that you think this is petty is disturbing... but not as disturbing as you thinking "War is cool"... Go to your local marine office, hold up pictures of dead US soldiers and tell them war is cool.

I think fascinating things are cool. sorry u feel that is a bad word to use. frankly ur being insanely petty to quibble over the diction of a slang word. but thats kind of how u r isnt it?

firestarter.

	30-06-2003 08:05									#34
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It's not petty at all... saying the absolute most evil parts of humanity "is cool" is completely ****ing stupid. I'm trying to educate you so you don't get beat up by somebody for saying stupid things... oh well...

	30-06-2003 08:06									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sava It's not petty at all... saying the absolute most evil parts of humanity "is cool" is completely ****ing stupid. I'm trying to educate you so you don't get beat up by somebody for saying stupid things... oh well...

u r so comical in how worked up u get. now I get it. sorry I was not down w/ how u are. but I beginning to understand.

have a nice day sava.

	30-06-2003 08:07									#36
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Our(the US's) obcession with WW2 has nothing to do with "cool" (in Europe WW1 still matters, and in australia it remains very important).

The enemy in WW2 was much more clearly "the bad guy and evil" than in WW1. The US participated thorugh the bulk of the war and at one point 1/10 of all Americans were in uniform, and 50% of GDP devoted to it, so it was a huge national endevour. And finally, the end was not too ambigious (marred by the split amoung the victorious coolition) but more importantly, the war made the US the great global power, and unlike after WW1 there was no going back home afterwards. Afetr WW1 the army shrunk to igsignificance and stayed there until 1941-42. We demobalized after WW2, but only 2 years later, we changed policy and got a large standing army, unlike anything the US had ever done before. In short, WW2 is the defining moment of US power in the world in the 20th century and thus has a much greater impact in the US than the Great War.

	30-06-2003 08:09									#37
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Games based on wars are 'cool' though .

	30-06-2003 08:11									#38
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quote: u r so comical in how worked up u get

Who's worked up? I'm sitting at a keyboard typing... not much effort.

quote: The Thin Red Line was too long, and while the horribly mishapen landscapes of No Man's Land might have some surrealitcis beauty, I don' think his style would work too well once the plot or action had to come into place.

it sucked...

quote: and TV has nothing to do with it.

I disagree. WW2 set an amazing historical precedent with the amount of cameramen on the front lines. The American people didn't, and still don't, know what real war is like. Seeing real footage of war played an important part in peaking America's interest in WW2.

	30-06-2003 08:11									#39
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Notice how few WW1 games there are? As a war, it is fine to simulate at the bigger strategic level (like a civ2 WW1 scenerio, or a civ3 one, if the damn diplomacy is every allowed to be edited) but never at the tactical.

	30-06-2003 08:11									#40
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quote: Games based on wars are 'cool' though

	30-06-2003 08:14									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I disagree. WW2 set an amazing historical precedent with the amount of cameramen on the front lines. The American people didn't, and still don't, know what real war is like. Seeing real footage of war played an important part in peaking America's interest in WW2.

And people saw that footage on Movie screens NOT tv. And during WW1 people made up footage about it. They had live footage from korea too, but people forget korea, and not vietnam. The reasons wars get rememebred or forgotten have much more to do with television. There was plenty of live footage from Panama as well, but how many people remember that operation?

	30-06-2003 08:18									#42
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WW2 was easily remembered because it was the one war where there was an EASY Good v. Evil dicotomy. It was almost comic bookish, and evil almost won... makes it stand out.

	30-06-2003 08:20									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui WW2 was easily remembered because it was the one war where there was an EASY Good v. Evil dicotomy. It was almost comic bookish, and evil almost won... makes it stand out.

WWII had lotsa characters. the inept french, the valiant british the industrial americans the cannon fawder russians the disciplined germans the fanatical japanese.

and its more like good vs evil vs russia. or something

	30-06-2003 08:21									#44
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quote: And people saw that footage on Movie screens NOT tv. And during WW1 people made up footage about it. They had live footage from korea too, but people forget korea, and not vietnam. The reasons wars get rememebred or forgotten have much more to do with television. There was plenty of live footage from Panama as well, but how many people remember that operation?

Of course TV wasn't the only thing... that's not even what I said in the first place... you're the one who singled out TV...

and nobody cares about Panama because it was insignificant... you think TV isn't playing a huge part in people's interest of the two Gulf Wars?

	30-06-2003 08:22									#45
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Well, that is the US, UK take on it. Given that the Soviets were central to victory in Europe (more than half of all human beings killed in WW2 dies between the Elbe and the Volga, the Artic Ocean and the Mediterranean) and that for Japan China was were most of it's army fought, the notion of a simple victory of good v evil is a poor one, specially given how many loose ends were left to be dealt with decades later.

	30-06-2003 08:23									#46
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quote: given how many loose ends were left to be dealt with decades later.

and are still being dealt with...

	30-06-2003 08:24									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Of course TV wasn't the only thing... that's not even what I said in the first place... you're the one who singled out TV...

What??? No I wasn't! And I challenge you to quote me on that, form earlier on this thread.

quote: and nobody cares about Panama because it was insignificant... you think TV isn't playing a huge part in people's interest of the two Gulf Wars?

Without TV we might not have had either of those wars, given how important the image is to todays politics, and it was images of 9/11 transmitted by TV that made the second Iraq war possible.

	30-06-2003 08:28									#48
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I like WW I more than WW II. I prefer the meat grinder style of mass destruction and death of WW I much more. And besides, when planes and tank comes in the screen, its less of a focus on the mass slaughter of infantries..

Well, seriously.. WW I isnt left out in the cold. Alot of great pacifist anti-war novels were written based on WWI. WWII doesnt have so much antiwar message novels cause its all about "All-american-fight-for-whats-right-feel-good-heros-win" war.

	30-06-2003 08:28									#49
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quote: And I challenge you to quote me on that, form earlier on this thread.

okay...

I said:

quote: there are lots... but again, most are based upon written accounts or black and white pictures. The amount of motion picture footage from WW2 is staggering compared to WW1.

you said:

quote: WW1 has been ingored since WW2, and TV has nothing to do with it.

game set match... next?

	30-06-2003 08:30									#50
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quote: Originally posted by GePap What??? No I wasn't! And I challenge you to quote me on that, form earlier on this thread.

quote: Originally posted by GePap I'm telling you Sava TV is the ONLY reason that WW2 is more "popular." You're also a d1ck.

	30-06-2003 08:32									#51
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Ted

	30-06-2003 08:33									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Go to your local marine office, hold up pictures of dead US soldiers and tell them war is cool.

I happen to think millions of men dying and crying and being emotionally broken down all for shits and giggles is just down right hilarious. no, seriously. I think thats why god lets us do it.

	30-06-2003 08:34									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Sava 1. Nobody won 2. It led to WW2 3. There were massive human rights abuses on all sides 4. There are no color pictures or movies of it (if it's not on TV, then Americans don't know it happened)

Sorry, but no game for you!

	30-06-2003 08:34									#54
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zero...

	30-06-2003 08:35									#55
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I think a WW1 game might be fun. It'd have to be like a spy during the war FPS... or maybe an RPG as the war is going on. Something fun like that.

	30-06-2003 08:35									#56
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quote: Sorry, but no game for you!

Yeah... Americans now... notice that's in parenthesis... I specified color pictures and movies... then making a tongue-in-cheek remark about the attention span of Americans. Don't blame me if you misinterept my posts.

	30-06-2003 08:36									#57
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Make ur own WWI game!

Load up starcraft
- Play as terran.
-Build only ghost, marine and firebat for offense
-Bunker and siege tank as defense.

There you have it folks

	30-06-2003 08:38									#58
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marines have automatic weapons... and what about stimpacks? that throws a cog in your machine!!!

	30-06-2003 08:39									#59
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Your whole notion that the amount of visual info of it, regardless of the medium is silly. Which is why I bring up Korea. There is more than enough footage form Korea to fill many documentaries. but they are not made. It's not the amount of footage that matters, but how the war affected the overall society and the state's place in the world.

In the UK WW1 is huge becuase it came to be seen as a huge watse of British men and it did set the Brits up for a huge set of downfalls after it, plus it changed society greaty (the end of Home rule in Ireland, the end of Edwardian soceity, women'r suffrage).

	30-06-2003 08:41									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sava marines have automatic weapons... and what about stimpacks? that throws a cog in your machine!!!

It still wont matter. I dont think u can break thru the bunker+siege tank behemoth with those.

Besides Its a lot nicer this way (getting them high on stimpack 2 min before dying.. )