19-07-2003 15:03									#61
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Game downloaded
I will play this week-end
BTW, those Mongols sure don't walk, but they look like diplomatic and xinning whizz
I will take care of this historical inaccuracy
And did they build cities or simply destroy them

	20-07-2003 22:28									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Play Order

1) SG[1] - 20 turns
2) SG(2) - 20 turns
3) STYOM - 20 turns
4) sirsnuggles - 20 turns
5) LaFayette - 20 turns
6) -Jrabbit - 20 turns
7) SCG - skipped
8) Old'n'Slow - 20 turns
9) Julius
10) ???

SG[1]

	21-07-2003 02:59									#63
	Got spare money?

King Julius, swam (as he could not walk) peacefully to the throne in 760 ad. He checked all cities before hitting the return key and marvelled at the great work done by his predecessors. He decides on a politics of trade, we need money, science and we need wonders. Oh yes, and our city with the Colossus is at size 3, with no real growth and no improvement.

780-800-820 ad, caravans (on board ships) are sailing to zulu land for trade
840 ad. Magellan is build by Carthaginians. I hope nobody dreamed of that wonder. I agree that best in monotheism, Mike’s Chapel and then republic.
860 ad 50 gold from a hut in zulu land, no advanced tribe (47% chance according to Samson). We discover Monotheism, invention is next.
880 ad We are threatened by the Carthaginians, refuse to give them a tech, but they don’t call our bluff.
900 ad. 246 gold with dye to Ngome, Zulus call our bluff and declare war. A bad mistake from king Julius, as we shall trade with them.
920-40-60 ad, after spending some money (library in Karak), we deal with the Zulus, peace in exchange for monotheism, risky, but I bet we can build Mike fast.
980-1000 ad. 268 gold with caravan in Zimbabwe.
1020-1040-1060 ad We discover invention, physics is next (en route to steam engine, as we remember the Gits are fond of ironclads). 164 gold to Ulundi.
1080-1100 ad. We build Mike’s Chapel. Nice time to retire !

	21-07-2003 03:01									#64
	Got spare money?

Sorry, I don’t think my play was great. Let’s say I was a bit rusty, to say the least. I think we should go for republic in the next oedo year, but that’s just my opinion. Two caravels are heading towards Zululand with caravans from Karakorum. We’re solid, but not powerful yet. Aleppo shall be able to build another wonder pretty soon …
Here is the saved game …

Attachment: bo_a1100.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	21-07-2003 14:23									#65
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks Julius - I guess it's back round to us unless there are any more takers or SCG has got RL under control - I would hope to play on Wednesday all things being equal - which they never are...

SG[1]

	21-07-2003 17:44									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Looks fine to me, Julius.

We've got Mike's and now turn loose our secret weapon -- a double-barreled Git gun.

(How many turns next round btw??)

	21-07-2003 20:59									#67
	Suffering from ads?

I think the main problem is going to be defense, as pedestrians like musketeers and riflemen are going to be dearly missed. Are Alpine troops (going on skis) allowed or not ? It could make some difference before mechanized infantry (or is it yet infantry ?)

	22-07-2003 01:27									#68
	Put an end to popups!

I'm thinking we make a beeline to airborne defenders for this game.
They'll never get close enough to thrreaten us!

	22-07-2003 05:23									#69
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Julius Brenzaida I think the main problem is going to be defense, as pedestrians like musketeers and riflemen are going to be dearly missed. Are Alpine troops (going on skis) allowed or not ? It could make some difference before mechanized infantry (or is it yet infantry ?)

Some time ago, I decided to start building Horsemen instead of Phalaxes for defense in the early part of my games. This game will be workable that way, I expect (the best defense is a good offense). The only hassle will be the extra shield cost.

And I would bet that Alpines are disallowed

	22-07-2003 17:29									#70
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hmm. I thought it was clever enough to work. The dictum was, "Mongols never walk." Ever try to walk on skis?

In any case, those cavalry should do just fine.

	22-07-2003 18:26									#71
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Ever try to walk on skis?

So you can only build alpine troops in cities on hills or mountains and then once they have moved one square you have to disband them because they're not allowed to walk back up the slope?

STYOM is right though - horsies are better than pointy-stick men because you can prevent the enemies from coming into your city radii and covering up your special squares. I like to have an archer hanging around so I can stick him on a hill or forest or whatever for the barbs to attack and then use horsies to catch the king and his bags of money. I doubt this works too well in MP, but against the barbs - or even another civ - then it's fine.

	22-07-2003 18:56									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I would think that Alpines are out, but Jeeps should be OK.

	24-07-2003 11:03									#73
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

And Lorries too

	25-07-2003 04:47									#74
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Alpines are NOT allowed! They use their own legs!!!

Jeeps however, have wheels!

==============================
Gentlemen - our log and commentary -

Oh dear!
SG[1] enquires of the cost of a day-trip to Paris with a few Crooked friends.
Size 3 capital with Colossus - Oh Deary Dear
10 cities!!!!!
Weak!!!!
Pop 1,020,000
1100 AD
Oh Dear!

Ormuz - citizen #1 is happy - 10 temples - we have Republic, but ...
1100 is an oedo year - Oh Dear!

Well - we go Rep in 1180 or we use food caravans to build Karakorum or both
Alternate scheme - get sloshed and ignore this mess

Decision - use Rep to grow Karakorum and see where we are in 1300

Annoy Carts - get War - kill Elly - at a price 2 horsies down one vet

1120 = Celebration in Karakorum; Food Caravans (4) now scheduled for Lady Liberty;
1140 = all quiet
1160 = Salt: Karakorum-Ulundi: 106g; Revolution
1180 = Republic established; Nishapur celebrates;
1200 = silence
1220 = 3 internal routes for 49g + 12 ongoing arrows;
1240 = more silence
1260 = listen to the sound ...
1280 = Rubbish: Samarkand-Zimbabwe: 158g;
1300 = Physics->Democracy; Rubbish*2: Karakorum-Zimbabwe: 476g; Karakorum now size 8;
1320 = quiet
1340 = Population 1,520,000; Karakorum 10; Rush extra Lady vans
1360 = Democracy->Steam Engine (what a surprise!); Khanbalik founded;
1380 = Evil Zulus kill a caravan - they are scheduled for toasting! Rubbish from Kabul: 102g; Karakorum now size 12; Population 1,920,000; Revolution!
1400 = Speaker Khan Bortei resigns gracefully and by unanimous vote of the retiring Senate is appointed High Shamaness of the Holy Mongolian Empire (Oh yes - we built The Lady); Two zulu caravans destroyed;
1420 = 3 routes to Isandhlwana, 292g;

For our drunken sheckels - we move to 'Clad & Crook production and annexe Zululand; Meanwhilst - the vast income from our Holy Empire can fund the launderettes needed for an eventual Democracy - but conquest will be much more fun

The Gits well oiled, but feeling quite pleased with themselves.

Attachment: bo_a1420.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	25-07-2003 04:50									#75
	Put an end to popups!

Eight turns each now please

The SGs with a broken avatar and smiley

	25-07-2003 05:09									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It looks like it's my turn. Thus, I have downloaded the save and will play it by Sunday. Probably sooner.

	25-07-2003 11:16									#77
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Clads and Crooks
Have a nice time STYOM

	25-07-2003 11:53									#78
	Got spare money?

Just testing resourced smiley ...

SG[1]

	25-07-2003 20:05									#79
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york So you can only build alpine troops in cities on hills or mountains and then once they have moved one square you have to disband them because they're not allowed to walk back up the slope?

If it was the case, I'd be happy to build a city on a gold mountain and defend it with my alpines troops
But it looks like the Gits do not agree

	25-07-2003 20:08									#80
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Alpines are NOT allowed! They use their own legs!!! Jeeps however, have wheels!

Yes, but how do you drive without ever using your legs
It could help to step into the jeep and for some trivious stuff like, the brakes

	27-07-2003 01:20									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

1420, and STYOM is elevated to the position of Shamaness Bortei's favourite cabana boy.

Gaaah! We're weak??? This map is full of cities built on 'sweet spot' locations... we've even done some irrigating! This game displays none of the rodentian hallmarks I have come to expect.

I do see some form of shipchain towards Zulu lands, but it's missing about 5 of 8 necessary ships

Goal: More 'mass'. Our society is a lightweight among nations. We need more cities, more ships to get our goods to market quickly and safely. More units, so that we can take what is rightfully ours (Just north of us is Magellan's Expedition in Caralis... )

Ideally we'll get Steam Engine via trade, but it's more important to lay the groundwork for later growth. We have only 5 Settlers after all.

Thus, the new ruler snaps a damp towel at his advisors and...

Rushes Horsemen in Khanbalyk - we want that city producing Settlers or Caravans. Changes some workers around to facilitate faster Caravan construction in Ormuz. Presses enter.

Barbarians capture Grenoble from French

Carthaginians finish Sun Tzu. Oops, was I supposed to do something about that?

Several Caravans are built.

1440: Accidentally sink a Zulu Caravel while returning to Ormuz!
Khorasan founded.

Barbarians rise near Basra... but across a stretch of water

1460: Not much of consequence... except that we incrementally add to caravan production in a few places and decide that we want to build Leo in Karakorum (since we have already built all supply commodities for that city).

Zulus form a Republic. Egyptians learn Iron Working.

1480: Shangtu founded.

Zulus learn Feudalism, French Monotheism.

1500: Leonardo's Workshop in Karakorum, all others abandon. Existing Horsemen become Elephants

Celts learn Republic.

1510: More rushing, incremental.

Carthaginians learn Chivalry.

1520: Kazan founded.

1530: Lots of rushed units.

We make peace with the Zulus to ensure the safety of our overseas Caravans. Some degree of safety, anyway.

1540: More rushbuilding.

8 turns doesn't seem like a lot, but I'll stop here and pass the towel of leadership to the next cabana boy in line.

Lots of expansion stuff going on - other than rushbuying Settlers and Caravans there isn't a lot to spend money on (no Diplomats ), so I figured Leo's was a decent investment. Yes, it'll kill the Ironclads when we get Electricity - but that's so far away it seemed to be irrelevant.

I was planning to build cities at (187,65), (189,77), and (208,100) in the next few turns. My successor may want to do differently, of course Take care of the 7 Caravans at sea towards Zuludom.

Attachment: bo_a1540.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	27-07-2003 01:59									#82
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

sirsnuggles ?

(I can play anytime if you don't feel like it)

	27-07-2003 11:49									#83
	Suffering from ads?

Is someone rousing me from my hibernation early?

All right, I'm good to go on Monday. Lafayette, if you want to play before Monday, go ahead, we can switch places, otherwise I'll steamroll on Monday.

	27-07-2003 18:15									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks STYOM! The expansion of the Empire is important even though the accessible real estate is not that exciting.

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man 1500: Leonardo's Workshop in Karakorum, all others abandon. Existing Horsemen become Elephants

This is a frequent misconception! The Leo's upgrades for legged units goes as follows:

Chariots become Elephants which then become Crusaders after discovering relevant techs.

Horsemen become Knights with Chivalry.

When Leadership arrives all Knights and Crusaders become Dragoons and with Tactics transform into Cavalry.

--------------------------------

SG(2)

	28-07-2003 07:03									#85
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Thanks STYOM! The expansion of the Empire is important even though the accessible real estate is not that exciting. This is a frequent misconception! The Leo's upgrades for legged units goes as follows: Horsemen become Knights with Chivalry. SG(2)

Looking at the save, obviously you're right. I wonder why I just assumed that? Anyhoo, I defend my decision to build Leos, based on the future upgrade of Settlers and Caravels. Besides, I can't stand it when the AI builds it

As for expansion... the real estate is decent. Some good sites in the north-east corner of our island. We had no decent units to go hunting Magellan (and not enough Caravels to ship them in) when I started my turns, but we now have several Caravels and are busy building Crusaders. Pump a few Caravans into the Zulu coastal cities, and we should have Steam.

	28-07-2003 14:11									#86
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Play Order - Second Round

1) SG[1] - 8 turns
2) SG(2) - 8 turns
3) STYOM - 8 turns
4) sirsnuggles -
5) LaFayette -
6) -Jrabbit -
7) SCG -
8) Old'n'Slow -
9) Julius -


SG[1]

	28-07-2003 19:32									#87
	Suffering from ads?

Hmm. Tried to open www.cms.livjm.ac.uk/wittgenstein/gits.gif
and got the infamous Poly "congrats, you found a missing page" form.

	29-07-2003 13:33									#88
	Put an end to popups!

The new young, lithe cabana boy, Sirsnuggles, is elevated from obscurity amidst the cacophony of Barry Manilow. With his new found power, Sirsnuggles determines to imprison the aforementioned Manilow. Yet, following contemplation reverses his decision, and gifts the said mentioned Manilow to the Phoenicians (A Trojan horse).

1540 AD: Regime implements new system of government: Communism.

1560 AD: Trade routes with Zimbabwe established:
Tabriz: 104 gold, +3 trade route.
Ormuz: 88 gold, +4 trade route.

1570 AD: Steam Engine discovered. Inquiries made into new types of transportation.
Trade route with Zimbabwe established:
Tabriz: 104 gold, +3 trade route.

1580 AD: Xinning sites created.

1590 AD: Trade routes with Zimbabwe established:
Kabul: 92 gold, +3 trade route.
Bokhara: 82 gold, +3 trade route.

1600 AD:
Trade routes with Zimbabwe established:
Tabriz: 104 gold, +3 trade route.
Karakorum: 156 gold, +4 trade route.
Kashgar: 94 gold, +3 trade route.

1610 AD: Discover Railroad, research Industrialization.
Trade route with Zimbabwe established:
Aleppo: 60 gold, +3 trade route.

1620 AD: Just moving things about.

Unfortunate bedroom scene between Sirsnuggles and the Khaness results in sudden banishment from the kingdom. Anonymous officials leak that when asked if he thought the Khaness’ new clothe lingerie from Zimbabwe made her look fat, Sirsnuggles foolishly replied, “Not that much.” In the wake of Sirsnuggles banishment, Barry Manilow reportedly seeks reentry into the kingdom. A dire day indeed.

A rather short-lived rule, not long enough to implement any sort of system, or even gain a feel of the present situation.

Attachment: bo_a1620.sav
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).

	30-07-2003 15:01									#89
	Put an end to popups!

Oh Dear!

A semester polishing the marble floors of The Institute for sirsnuggles

One does not build WoWs the hard way once one has Trade!

One does not build Darwin in the capital (unless you are extremely careful / lucky!)

One does not go Commie until one can celebrate the majority of one's cities

One does not build Libraries in order to gain 7 beakers/turn when an advance costs > 1000 beakers

One does not run a luxury rate (even of 10%) when it neither stabilizes any cities nor celebrates any cities

One does not keep >1000g in the treasury in any government at any time without a very good reason

Other than that - good turns

I seem to recall that you were warned of the possibility of robust constructive criticism! We hate to dissapoint our readership!

The SGs

Seriously, sirsnuggles, if any of the above need further explanation we will happily provide details of the justification for our 'theories' ...

	30-07-2003 15:25									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Play Order - Second Round

1) SG[1] - 8 turns
2) SG(2) - 8 turns
3) STYOM - 8 turns
4) sirsnuggles - 8 turns
5) LaFayette -
6) -Jrabbit -
7) SCG -
8) Old'n'Slow -
9) Julius -


SG[1]