15-07-2003 07:10									#31
	Tired of ads?

For what it's worth (for Arnelos, primarily), here are approximate costs for each tech as of this turn:

Construction: 476-480 beakers
Currency: 381-384 beakers
Literature: 217-220 beakers
Polytheism: 287-288 beakers
Republic: 533-540 beakers

These are constrained by the various combinations of beakers per turn available only by changing the science rate. I could probably find the exact cost by reassigning workers, but God that's a lot more work and this is clsoe enough. If another civ we know gets any of these we will see a drop larger than the intervals of uncertainty here, anyway

	15-07-2003 08:02									#32
	Got spare money?

ET, do you have any more facts for you Sim that you ran?

Like numbers of units and what types of improvements you've built?

If I were to go for stricly commerce my builds would differ from what I did in the past; it's a average build que that I tried for. I want a certain amount of Units available at all times compared to the other Civ's. Vet units are very important in that equation as well.

	15-07-2003 08:22									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I had built barracks in Tripoli and Hispanica

I had build walls in Big Bend and Karina

I had built a settler in the Lux (Temp) city

I had built both in Poly and Banana (in this order): NM, Wrk, Wrk, Wrk, Settler, Settler (this one is headed to the new site) - I would have liked to have had 1 more NM between the Wrks and the settlers, but then they would not have been ready to go before we would have gotten to anarchy.

Incenity - Wrk, 30su units

Ming - 30su Units, then a settler at size 5, then 30su again.

by the time that 22 turns had come around, I was mor or less ready to start building Temps in the Ganary cities. And the workers had done a fair amount of stuff.

I'll see about posting a screeshot soon.

E_T

	15-07-2003 08:25									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

How many NM's/Swords/other units did you build? We need to have a certain number of them.

	15-07-2003 08:34									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can answer that -

in his sim at the time he gets Republic (the tech, not actually becomes a Republic), he has

17 Workers
13 Warriors
9 Swords
1 Horse
9 NMs

that means, from the turn we are at now, he has built

8 Workers
6 Swords
1 Horse
2 NMs

upped our GNP by 18 and Mfg by 6 in 20 or so turns.

	15-07-2003 08:49									#36
	Support Apolyton

The NM's were the only Regular units, all other vets

And gone from 9 to 13 cities, with 2 settlers that are headed towards the next 2 sites. Only cities that aren't connected are the 2 newest ones and the 2 that are not built at that time. And the workers are getting over to them....

E_T

	15-07-2003 08:59									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

E_T

	15-07-2003 09:54									#38
	430BC by the AltSp Full PM-box? Change here!

Same number of 30su's as E_T. However, core all building units faster. In republic vs just discovered. The savings rate is not high, due to the number of units. Hense my not wanting more regs. They are not needed, and slow us down.

Made a mistake not building the Hispanica temple first.

I wasted Tripoli. I built another worker and then set it to a court house. I did not want to skew results with a city less corrupt than it should be.

	15-07-2003 09:56									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I built the temples to extend city radiuii into the hills. City 5 can be a 10spt city before the war (with worker adds, maybe 9 with corruption differences).

The temples in the core get us to 6 pop. Extra tiles worked without using the slider. more shields, more commerce. Good deal, I think.

	15-07-2003 18:20									#40
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I'm trying to understand why two Reg. Warriors "slow us down". Let's forget about our schedule, and think about what we're trying to accomplish: we want to destroy CDG pretty much as soon as we hit Republic (to avoid a non-despotic GA). This goal requires units. We're Shield-constrained here, not Gold-constrained.

Are we confident enough that we know exactly how many units we need to defeat CDG?

Anyway, enough of my complaining, I still plan to do that test to determine exactly the effects of building two more Reg. Warriors versus two Workers.


Dominae

	16-07-2003 06:05									#41
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Dominae, see the shot. +23 gpt at 0 research with a 10% slider. That run was far from optimised, and we might get a zero slider, but at the sacrifice of pop in Ming, Poly, and nana over the long haul.

We have 13 warriors to upgrade as is. That takes 520 gold. We have 120 of that now (145 if we preserve the recent plunder). We need another 380 to 400. A few more camps can be had, but we are still many turns of 0 research to get the upgrades done. Do we want to wait for 2 more? Those 2 more will also eat into the gpt piling up, and slow things down a bit more.

At that point we are very close to 4 cities doing 3 turn swords, with a couple more doing 4 or 5 turn. The units pile up pretty quickly while we save for upgrades. I do not feel we need to hold things up for 2 more reg warriors. Especially with WW back in, regs are a worse deal than before.

	16-07-2003 07:46									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ok, ok, I'm almost convinced, without my even having to do a sim of my own.

Are you saying we only accumulate ~50 Gold between now and the time we reach The Republic? With all our upkeep, perhaps it would be best to stay in Despotism until we build up enough Gold; our free unit support in Despotism could actually be more profitable than the Commerce bonus in Republic! Any thoughts on that?


Dominae

	16-07-2003 08:18									#43
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Are you saying we only accumulate ~50 Gold between now and the time we reach The Republic? With all our upkeep, perhaps it would be best to stay in Despotism until we build up enough Gold; our free unit support in Despotism could actually be more profitable than the Commerce bonus in Republic! Any thoughts on that?

It might be wise to do so until we can make our cities larger to get more commerce from them.

	16-07-2003 08:21									#44
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Or, at least until we get enough Gold to start a war. We definitely want to be in Republic when our GA triggers, regardless of how big our cities are.


Dominae