15-07-2003 09:56									#31
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I get the feeling it probably was a sign showing uncle sam shaking hands with Speedy Gonzalez and the Naval Ensign flying in the background...

	15-07-2003 09:59									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what did you see at the border? Navy ships also use DU rounds on their phalanx guns. Though I don't see why that is needed. They are firing at aluminum aircraft and missiles. It can't be that hard to penetrate.

Prevents closeaboard missiles and kamikazes from hitting the ship. Throws an incredible amount of heavy rounds.

	15-07-2003 10:10									#33
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yes, but it shouldn't take that much to hit and disrupt a missile. wouldn't normal rounds do the same thing?

	15-07-2003 10:11									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident yes, but it shouldn't take that much to hit and disrupt a missile. wouldn't normal rounds do the same thing?

Didn't always work with kamikazes.

	15-07-2003 10:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Prevents closeaboard missiles and kamikazes from hitting the ship. Throws an incredible amount of heavy rounds.

Wouldn't lead be better for that (since it's softer more momentum transferred instead of blowing through target)

	15-07-2003 10:13									#36
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That was reason I thought DU was preferable to Pb (since DU punches through armour rather than splatting on side)

	15-07-2003 10:14									#37
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well I'm talking about aluminum missile and aircraft.

That is a seperate issues than MBT's.

Obviously you want DU for MBT's.

But I still don't see it as that useful for aluminum targets.

	15-07-2003 10:16									#38
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Wouldn't lead be better for that (since it's softer more momentum transferred instead of blowing through target)

I donno.

	15-07-2003 10:18									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident well I'm talking about aluminum missile and aircraft. That is a seperate issues than MBT's. Obviously you want DU for MBT's. But I still don't see it as that useful for aluminum targets.

Well, I think that CIWS has a pretty good rep. there was a long time when we were really worried about missile threats to ships (and with good reason, look at the Starke). So CIWS stops missiles that get through the engagment range of a STandard AAM.

	15-07-2003 10:22									#40
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quote: Originally posted by TCO I donno.

You're probably just trying to get rid of all the excess DU you've produced by building 20 000 warheads...

	15-07-2003 10:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Well, I think that CIWS has a pretty good rep. there was a long time when we were really worried about missile threats to ships (and with good reason, look at the Starke). So CIWS stops missiles that get through the engagment range of a STandard AAM.

Why doesn't somebody build missiles that drop into water and become torpedoes, eliminating closeboard antithreat systems?

	15-07-2003 10:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Why doesn't somebody build missiles that drop into water and become torpedoes, eliminating closeboard antithreat systems?

Another advantage is that you can do more damage by exploding underwater. I don't really know all the answers, but it is partly weight. APrtly that many ships still don't have that great of a countremeaseru for missiles. and that the torpedo doesn't go that fast, so evasion by the ship is more of an option. (as is the torp losing its target (in terms of homing). But who knows, maybe it would work. You know those APL guys do a lot of aerospace and ocean systems stuff...

	15-07-2003 10:36									#43
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Yes, and Annapolis is right around the corner.

When I start getting weapons ideas, though, DoD should probably start dreaming up countermeasures...

	15-07-2003 10:37									#44
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Actually I believe that has already been developed. I'm not sure though.

	15-07-2003 10:40									#45
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I was going to mention in the sense that ASROC has been around for a long time and that there are air-launched torpedos. But I think Kitty meant a full up Harpoon, type cruise missile that has a torp payload. Maybe a mk46 payload. 48 is already bigger than a Harp.

	15-07-2003 10:45									#46
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I know WWII had air-dropped torps, but I was dreaming of cruise missile turning into torp at 10 mile range or whatever. Eliminates need for popup maneuver (which is, I would think, most critical time)

	15-07-2003 10:46									#47
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Plus the torp could extend a 3-meter whip antenna and home in via radar instead of just sonar....

	15-07-2003 10:47									#48
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That antenna better have a strong base.

	15-07-2003 10:48									#49
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Ah crap. Need dish.

Okay. It gets its orders via satellite and GPS...

	15-07-2003 10:51									#50
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Plus the torp could extend a 3-meter whip antenna and home in via radar instead of just sonar....

ASROC is sorta like that. But I think it is a rocket vice a cruise missile in terms of the preflight. No dorkiy antennas though.

	15-07-2003 10:52									#51
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Ah crap. Need dish. Okay. It gets its orders via satellite and GPS...

But that requires you to keep comms with it. It is often desirable to have a weapon that doesn't need comms. (jamming and the like).

	15-07-2003 10:52									#52
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You like your torps smooth?

	15-07-2003 10:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by TCO But that requires you to keep comms with it. It is often desirable to have a weapon that doesn't need comms. (jamming and the like).

Fine. You stuff a jihadi into it and add a periscope...

But now I'm just stealing ideas from the IJN...

	15-07-2003 10:56									#54
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The Instand Jihad Nations?

	15-07-2003 10:56									#55
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Imp. Jap. Navy

	15-07-2003 10:57									#56
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Kaitens (sp?) IIRC

	15-07-2003 10:58									#57
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You like your torps smooth?

Nice flat head on the end of the shaft.

	15-07-2003 11:34									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what did you see at the border?

New vintage SPs. Both E2 or E3, one male (alleged) one female (cute). Guy looked like the age, physique, and all around rough-toughness to be asking me if I wanted paper or plastic. Girl had mascara, had her hair all nicely washed and conditioned and shiny, done up in a nice little (undoubtedly regulation) bun/knot thing in the back underneath that silly ass cap you squiddies make the girl-squiddies wear. She looked like the average 20-21 year old cutie-fluff that serves me frappucinos in Starbucks, not some rough, tough, drunk sailor on shore leave chop-busting SP.

It was really pathetic, actually. Can't you guys recruit badasses any more?

	15-07-2003 14:03									#59
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I figured it was something like that.

hey, on my ships, all the girls were big and looked like dy-- I mean lesbos . Is that more to your liking?

SP's are a joke anyways. They always have been. Just a joke duty assignment for worthless low grade with nothing better to do. When carriers pulled into port, they'd assign all sorts of people with little training for SP duty. They aren't real master at arms rated people. There are real master at arms rates. I did temporary duty in security division, and worked with real master at arm rates. They are a little tougher than your average squid. Though I still wouldn't take them in a fight over a marine . With a few exceptions though. I did know a couple who were into martial arts and such, and many of them were heavy into weightlifting- which doesn't say much for their fighting capabilities. But at least they can someone drag a drunk squid into the brig.

	15-07-2003 18:18									#60
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SPs are cooks with a gun. They are usually MS's. The other ratings are too much in demand for real shore tours.