16-07-2003 16:26									#61
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No you didn't. You lost. I won.

	16-07-2003 16:26									#62
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Aha? So are all the mps and ministers mullahs too? Geez, I didnt have a clue...

First of all, if you don't know the amount of power the religious establishment in Iran yields, you are living in a sheltered reality.

	16-07-2003 16:28									#63
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But that really has very little to do with the Iranian government Az....

	16-07-2003 16:30									#64
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And many many countries have influencial, strong religious establihments. Israel, Poland, USA, Greece just to name few...
I'm not saying its a good thing but you cant really declare a country evil just because it has strong religious establihments.

	16-07-2003 16:31									#65
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius But that really has very little to do with the Iranian government....

No it doesn't. The religious segment in Iran has always yielded a tremendous amount in the government of influence since the 1979 revolution. To deny this is just plain stupid.

	16-07-2003 16:32									#66
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius And many many countries have influencial, strong religious establihments. Israel, Poland, USA, Greece just to name few...

Yes but those states are actually based on secular constitutions.

	16-07-2003 16:33									#67
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Are they? I'm not so sure Fez..

	16-07-2003 16:35									#68
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Are they? I'm not so sure Fez..

They most certainly are.

	16-07-2003 16:36									#69
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Also let me say this once more. Mullahs are not part of Iranian government. They may have influence over it, just as any lobbygroup in the states for example...
Sometimes the government is very hostile towards the mullahs

	16-07-2003 16:37									#70
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Fez, why don't you look for a copy of Polish, Israeli and Greek constitutions and count how many words "God" , or references to bible you find

	16-07-2003 16:39									#71
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Fez, why don't you look for a copy of Polish, Israeli and Greek constitutions and count how many words "God" you find

Well I was talking about the US.

Treaty of Tripoli, signed 1797. Chapter 11.

Look it up.

So zip it.

	16-07-2003 16:42									#72
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Well you used the word "they" wich is plural.You also referred earlier to all of my examples by using the phrase "those states". So you had to be talking about more than just US constitution.

	16-07-2003 16:51									#73
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Fez, why don't you look for a copy of Polish, Israeli and Greek constitutions and count how many words "God" , or references to bible you find

The US consitition was written more than 200 years ago. give it a rest.

The declaration of Israel's independence is here:http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/israel.htm

There is one time the world 'God' is there, and that's due to an incorrect translation, because otherwise, the communists and socialists would've never sign it.

	16-07-2003 16:51									#74
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And secular constitution does not guarantee religious tolerance or human rights. It's just secular.

	16-07-2003 16:53									#75
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For example North Korean constitution is secular


A petty Chieftain beating two Kings?

Last edited by laurentius on 16-07-2003 at 17:00

	16-07-2003 17:08									#76
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Noone said it did. What I mean is that if IS religious, than it certainly DOESN'T. nice weaseling out, though.

	16-07-2003 17:17									#77
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So here we are. Secular constitution does not guarantee religious tolerance or human rights, nor does the religious constitution. I'm glad we agree.

Case closed.
next one please

	16-07-2003 17:53									#80
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ehm, Don't want to get in the way of the thread jack or anything, but where is Mad Monk and co. when the USA executes foreign citizens?

	16-07-2003 17:55									#81
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The nature of the "crime", the lack of due process....

	16-07-2003 17:57									#82
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Exellent point osweld. Let's Roll! We have a "regime change" to perform!

	16-07-2003 17:57									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The nature of the "crime", the lack of due process....

Kinda like unknown crimes and military tribunals?

	16-07-2003 17:58									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld ehm, Don't want to get in the way of the thread jack or anything,

Especially when you could start your own.

	16-07-2003 17:59									#85
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Personally, I don't know why they US bother with trials at all. They captured them during war, didn't they?

	16-07-2003 17:59									#86
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Especially when you could start your own.

It's atleast a bit more on-topic though.

	16-07-2003 18:00									#87
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anyway, back to Iran...

	16-07-2003 21:18									#88
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Triple post!

Last edited by Richelieu on 16-07-2003 at 21:25

	16-07-2003 21:20									#89
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See above and below...

Last edited by Richelieu on 16-07-2003 at 21:29

	16-07-2003 21:21									#90
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Agence France Presse reports that the Iranian VP Mohammad Ali Abtahi admitted that she died after she was beaten.

I only have a french link : http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualite...03,368702.shtml