17-07-2003 20:29									#31
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I was being somewhat sarcastic, FP, kinda like you were.

I'd be ok with House Arrest, so long as there was CivIII, beer, cigs, pizza, and videos available for my use.

-Arrian

p.s. Add in a hareem to that list, actually.

	17-07-2003 20:37									#32
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I would like to see data on death related accidents by age, that do not involve alcohol...

Yet, my concern is that ppl don't realize that as a familly member you can ask the DMV to revoke your familly members liscense... at any age.

Also, with the number of elderly increasing the number of elderly driving will increase, which will mean more accidents like this. Nothing will happen however, all attempts at trying to test or restrict the eldery further has been shot down by successful AARP lobbying... Thus, my main concern is really; are elderly more conservative or liberal?

Truly a sad day... I hope they cage this man, I don't care how old he is. If they don't arrest him and lock him up for manslaughter because he is so old than that would just be reverse age discrimination and another display of the hypocricy of our government...

Just reminded of Happy Gilmore when Happy is telling the Repo-man not to take his Grandma's house away; "look at her she's ooooooold, and... she's oooold!"

	17-07-2003 21:17									#33
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I remember we actually discussed this in Drivers Ed. Our instructor noted that the problem was that once you took a way an old person's keys, they often die. Driving may be a privilege and not a right, but except in very urban environments it is a privilege nessecary to prevent excessive boredom and being cramped out in your house. Losing the ability to drive for an old person means a huge reduction in their freedom and can lead to depression- and lack of mental well being can lead to lack of physical well being.

	17-07-2003 21:19									#34
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quote: Losing the ability to drive for an old person means a huge reduction in their freedom and can lead to depression- and lack of mental well being can lead to lack of physical well being.

But keeping their keys means that others will lose all their freedoms, including mental and physical well-being, because they will be dead!!!

	17-07-2003 21:31									#35
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This reminds me of the time some old lady wearing those thick black visors pulled out for a left turn just a few feet in front of me, I just barely was able to avoid hitting her. I would agree with those who suggest mandatory testing.

	18-07-2003 08:13									#36
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this sucks.

well, at least they're in a better place now.

	18-07-2003 08:18									#37
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It happened a couple of blocks from my house. Let's just have a moment of silence for the 9 who died and the 49 other people injured.

This tragedy was very MUCH a tragedy, so if you guys would be so kind as to refrain from sarcastic or offensive remarks, I'd very much appreciate it.

Thanks.

	18-07-2003 10:26									#38
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10 dead now

Just a reminder of how precious life is. Hopefully something can be done soon to prevent incidents like this from happening again.

	18-07-2003 10:29									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Truly a sad day... I hope they cage this man, I don't care how old he is.

I heard they let him off without charges. Is that true?

	18-07-2003 10:45									#40
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I was listening to a local talk radio station where the host was talking about this. He brought up a good point when he used Lexis-Nexis to look up similar stories where phrasing like "confused the gas for the brake" was used...the overwhelming majority of them were elderly people and most of them involved serious injury.

I'm proud that my grandmother recently hung up her keys voluntarily and now has neighbors drive her to the store and to church. At least she has the sense to stop when she knows when to stop.

	18-07-2003 11:19									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I would like to see data on death related accidents by age, that do not involve alcohol...

Here's a quote that emphesizes how dangerous elderly drivers are.

quote: Drivers who are 85 and older have a fatality rate nine times as high as 25- to 69-year-olds, when calculated based on miles traveled, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said. At nearly 10 deaths per 100 million miles, it is higher than any other age group.

http://washingtontimes.com/national...13145-5073r.htm

	18-07-2003 11:21									#42
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discrimination based on age is illegal

	18-07-2003 11:21									#43
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Well, a big part of the problem is that he just renewed his driver's license within the last few months, so the DMV isn't very likely to want to take responsibility for this one.

Although who will, remains to be seen.

	18-07-2003 11:39									#44
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There's always an indirect route of pushing the elderly out of driving - auto insurance. The young get charged extra for their age; I'm sure that the companies could justify it through actuarial tables that would make it progressively more expensive to be an elderly drive.

	18-07-2003 11:40									#45
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It looks like the man has a history of having trouble driving.

quote: Police searching Weller’s home for medications and evidence of his fitness to drive found that Weller recently “struck the back of his garage at least twice” with his car, Butts said Thursday on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” He didn’t elaborate on how investigators knew Weller was to blame for the mishaps.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/939947.asp?0si=-

quote: A friend of Weller, Chuck Morrell, said the elderly man had crashed into a retaining wall 10 years ago during a birthday party at Weller's home. "All of a sudden I heard this crash," Morrell told KABC-TV. "We ran outside the house and his car was up on the side of this about three-foot wall, on the top of it. Nobody was hurt." Weller was arriving at the party in the same Buick he drove in Wednesday's accident. He "launched the car on top of the retaining wall and took out the patio furniture and potted plants," Ken Kaiden, a friend of Morrell's who saw a videotape of the accident, told The Associated Press

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryn...cal/6327727.htm

	18-07-2003 11:41									#46
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The AARP would probably counter the higher insurance rates by getting the government to pass an "elderly car insurance" benefit.

	18-07-2003 12:07									#47
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I hate the AARP passionately.

	18-07-2003 12:21									#48
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Its automatic transmission folks.... You should ban it! Learn to drive with manual... it isnt that hard and stuff like this doesnt happen....

semi

	18-07-2003 12:24									#49
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wouldn't another pedal just confuse old folks even more?

I for one have never confused the brake for the gas pedal. I can't fathom how someone would do that. One's on the right, and one's on the left. And they are differnt shapes and sizes too! I have had my foot slip off the brake pedal before, but that is far different from hitting the wrong friggin' pedal.

	18-07-2003 12:35									#50
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Well, it would confuse them alright. But this kind of things just dont happen with a manual trans.

What happens is that folks drive with both their feet. One on the brake, the other on the afterburner Now that you cannot do with the stickshift.

Besides, why make it easier for them to keep their license (sorry, but it is dangerous out there).

	18-07-2003 12:41									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Daz Its automatic transmission folks.... You should ban it! Learn to drive with manual... it isnt that hard and stuff like this doesnt happen.... semi

This sounds like the beginning of a bad trend. Next thing you know they will allow third parties to be on the ballot, and we all know that Democrat voting oldsters can only handle one "choice" at a time. Instead I'd model a future car design for the elderly on the new ballot that the Democrats have come up with for South Florida which automatically votes a straight Democrat ticket. In the case of the car the one pedal would only operate the break.

	18-07-2003 15:52									#52
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Let them ride Vespas!

The old kind (pre 1985) that stall out if you pop the clutch too quick - and it's on the left hand grip, so if you have arthritis, you ain't a-goin'!

Well, that and a top speed of about 60mph. But you do have to premix the gas and oil, so if they forget to do THAT, it's like a built-in check.

	18-07-2003 16:13									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Mordoch Here's a quote that emphesizes how dangerous elderly drivers are. Drivers who are 85 and older have a fatality rate nine times as high as 25- to 69-year-olds,

I'll bet you can replace "Driver" with about any other activity and get the same stats.

Skiers, Divers, Bowlers, Cellists...

	18-07-2003 16:41									#54
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV My father is 76 and should not be driving a car but it would seriously limit his quality of life if he had to stop so his doctor keeps signing the forms to say he is fit. Crazy system.

Its easy for some to say that elderly drivers should not be on the road but, as with your father, what happens to those people who dont have any public transport? How do they get out to deal with necessities such as food?

As for manadatory re-testing, its good idea that is hard to implement given the political clout of the grey panthers. Everybody should be retested every 5 years then maybe we could re-test the elderly every year without turning them into pariah.

	18-07-2003 20:41									#55
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quote: I hate the AARP passionately.

Smart man.

	19-07-2003 11:51									#56
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perhaps we should euthanize old people when they reach 70 years old.