28-07-2003 15:53									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Can you give an example of dumb AI? I've not had time to play more than 450 turns since getting 1.2.5 but all the opponent races have seemed pretty competent so far. Its been impossible to out expand or out research the best placed enemy races and those I have fought have always tried to probe weak points so that "classic" game strategies like a single invincible fleet don't work. Their indirect (fighter/missile) fleets have got very good at hit and run combat tactics too instead of just fighting to the death when outmatched.

The only walkover I've had was a race who drew the short straw in starting location.

	29-07-2003 00:06									#32
	Put an end to popups!

it still crap!

	29-07-2003 03:02									#33
	Do saves under old patch run with new patch? Suffering from ads?

Do saves from the old code patch run under the new one? I have a scenario I'm deep into which I don't want to throw away in the process of converting, but would like to upgrade if possible... Thanks!

	29-07-2003 03:26									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Turk Man it still crap!

But are you using a subjective or objective standard?

	29-07-2003 04:08									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I believe they still run, though there are one or two (relatively minor) things mentioned in the patch readme that don't get retroactively fixed in the savegame.

	29-07-2003 04:09									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by The Templar But are you using a subjective or objective standard?

Actually, I think it's just a recording, since it only says the same thing over and over.

	29-07-2003 06:06									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Signature... how do I make it?

(want to include this) - The job of a soilder is not to die for his empire, but to make the other sorry SoB's die for theirs.

	29-07-2003 07:04									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Can I ask you all a hypothetical? Say that someone bought the game when it was first released and played it for a weak, then did not touch it again untill this patch is released. What is the first thing he would notice when playing this version?

	29-07-2003 15:46									#39
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Maverick88 Signature... how do I make it? (want to include this) - The job of a soilder is not to die for his empire, but to make the other sorry SoB's die for theirs.

Add it to your user preferences via the control panel link.

	29-07-2003 15:55									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Can I ask you all a hypothetical? Say that someone bought the game when it was first released and played it for a weak, then did not touch it again untill this patch is released. What is the first thing he would notice when playing this version?

Depending on how you played before and the size of the map you choose, the extra shortcuts making empire management more convenient or the stronger AI. You need to make friends fast or they will come "exploring" with military ships pretty quickly unless you've gone for a huge galaxy. As you can probably tell from the 1.2.4 and 1.2.5 patch notes they haven't replaced whole chunks of the game, they've just tightened up a lot of what was already there.

	29-07-2003 21:47									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

TY

	29-07-2003 21:51									#42
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

When I try to download the patch, the download stops half way and a pop-up asks for a password and username. What's going on?

	29-07-2003 22:19									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Perhaps you need to be logged in windows with admin rights? (nt/2k/xp)

	29-07-2003 22:31									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Epistax Perhaps you need to be logged in windows with admin rights? (nt/2k/xp)

The pop-up is from quicksilver. Maybe I need to log in to the MOO3 website first?

	05-08-2003 07:40									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold PD still fails very occasionally but its now rare enough that you can shrug it off as a surprise ambush and it shouldn't drive you away from the game if you like the other features.

In real life PD system donot alway work anyway. Anti-Missile Defence only work when faceing one of afew missiles, than massive missile attack will see missiles getting thought. It only hollywood and Pentdom hype that have than 100 % PD system.

	05-08-2003 07:54									#46
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Turk Man it suck wait for moo4!

Dear Truk Man ,
The game in my opion was good and gotten better. Any complex game nowday need many patches to correct bugs and other error in programming why don't you creat your own complex space strag game and post it on the internet and it better not have any bugs or error in it. Than you have 4 week todoit in.

	05-08-2003 14:24									#47
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

PD in the game should be consistent with the game rules. Sure I agree its nowhere near that effective in reality, but lets face it we are a way off inventing a faster than light drive too.

If I were you I would ignore the troll. A one sentence post is not worthy of a meaningful response.

	07-08-2003 11:51									#48
	Tired of ads?

Have now played a patched gameof MOO3, played as ITHKUL and had a WHALE OF A TIME.......
Guess I must be a fanboy cos this game is now great to play.
Nice new icons, you can lock build queues, the enemy actually fight you now....and retreat!!!!!
And I can even use the mouse Icon without it flickering.
My recomendation is to patch MOO3 and also install Bard of Preys galaxy mod, because his galaxys are much better than the ones that came with the game.
GO ON TRY IT>>>>>>>

	09-08-2003 02:03									#49
	Increase Your PM Length

I remember awhile back some people said this game was never going to be patach at all. Makeing and testing a patch take time and effected. There are time you fix some bug three more show up which also need to be fix.

	09-08-2003 10:16									#50
	Put an end to popups!

I also remember further back when Chantz was saying how great the game will be after years of development and work. :P

	18-10-2003 17:48									#51
	Remove this text

quote: Any complex game nowday need many patches to correct bugs and other error in programming why don't you creat your own complex space strag game and post it on the internet and it better not have any bugs or error in it. Than you have 4 week todoit in.

Uhhh... This game is still freakin' bug ridden!

That said. I think it's still fun. Except when it becomes unplayable on a huge galaxy because of 5 minute turn waits. They slowed down tech too much in my opinion.

However, the AI gives me a good run for my money on easy, so I think it's great! They no longer expect one solitary scout ship to defeat an armada of behemoths

	18-10-2003 17:53									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't think any game should be released with bugs though.

If it needs more time, then it needs more time. They'd probably save money in the long-run that way... Nothing makes sense to me anymore in business.

Think about it. Game has bugs. You take 6 months to iron them out, release the game once. Now you're free for other projects. No need to waste money sending out a free patch, and your customers are happier too... Then again, when your customers are impatient...

	18-10-2003 23:53									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It is damned difficult to release anything with no bugs. Pretty much the only way to find them is to do exhaustive testing, and that requires releasing the game.

However they knew about bugs at release that they should have just pushed the game back a while and then released.

	19-10-2003 02:15									#54
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Then why are these so many games that had no bugs first release? Most console games don't have any, either.

	20-10-2003 10:49									#55
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Klasanov Then why are these so many games that had no bugs first release? Most console games don't have any, either.

There is a big Difference between Concole-Games and Computer-Games:
Console-Games always encounter the same Running Environment. Each Console-User has the same Hardware and Software installed on his System and Hardware and Software are thorougly tested to work together adequately.

But there are many Differences in the Hardware and Software of Computer-Users.
One may have an AMD, the other a Pentium, one a Soudnblaster, the other a Yamaha-Soundcard, and although there are Standards which Hardware-Components must met, you canīt really know, what Effects the different Combinations of Hardare-Components my have (if one Programs has no Problems with one Hardware-Combination, it doesnīt say, that another Program also hasnīt any Problems).
Same goes for Softare and exspecially Drivers. Software-Components come from vastly different Programming-Teams and, although they must also meet crtain Standards, you donīt know, how crtain Versions of Drivers and Programs interact (including the different Versions of DirectX).

So, where Developers of Comnsole-Games just have to test Console - Games in one Had- and Software-Environment, which doesnīt change (very much) from End-User to End-User,
there are so many Combinations of Hard- and Softwarecomponents which End-Users of Computergames may have, it it impossible for Developers of Computergames, to test them in every single Environment (especially, if the Developers have to meet Deadlines and have a fixed Budget).
So Developers of Computergames can only test their games on a number of Environments and hope, that the game works in othr Environments, too.

	21-10-2003 14:18									#56
	Put an end to popups!

Point taken on console games. But honestly, I nevr heard of patches being needed to fix big problems until like Civ III.

Maybe games have just gotten so complicated they can't test them throughally anymore in a closed enviorment? I mean, the beta testers for MOO3 didn't even understand the economic system (Though you'd expect them to be told every facet of the game so they know if something is working correctly or not).

*shrugs* So I'll concede that a bugged version is okay, provided they listen to the feedback and then fix the bugs.

Actually, any number of patches needed should be fine provided they're willing to fix whatever bugs are present. Well, big ones anyway. We can at least agree to that, right?

	21-10-2003 22:11									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Actually, I have plenty of console games with bugs, and a couple of them have show stoppers, lode runner 3d for example does not let you save after a certain point without the game crashing, makes the game very difficult.

And yea, QSI knew about some bugs that exist today, and they should have fixed those during the beta.

	21-11-2003 03:45									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Klasanov Point taken on console games. But honestly, I nevr heard of patches being needed to fix big problems until like Civ III. Maybe games have just gotten so complicated they can't test them throughally anymore in a closed enviorment? I mean, the beta testers for MOO3 didn't even understand the economic system (Though you'd expect them to be told every facet of the game so they know if something is working correctly or not). *shrugs* So I'll concede that a bugged version is okay, provided they listen to the feedback and then fix the bugs. Actually, any number of patches needed should be fine provided they're willing to fix whatever bugs are present. Well, big ones anyway. We can at least agree to that, right?

I can think of a number of PC games over the years that have had big bugs in them and needed major patching post release. One of the first and biggest that comes to mind is Ultima IX. It was so buggy that patching was practically a requirement to even play it. Crimson Skies is another that comes to mind. Dog slow without a patch, and not exactly what it could have been even after bug fixes. And these are both games at least 4-5 years old.

But even ones that were playable and decent like the early XComs, MOO2 or Civ2 got patches and bug fixes.

I think the main reason why it seems like games are being shipped out these days with more bugs still needing erradication is not just that there is so much more code to fix, but that it is so easy to distribute the fixes. 10 years ago the internet was still only starting to work its way into the home, modems were 28.8k(if that), and CD-Rs were non-existant to very cutting edge. Game companies had much more incentive to get it right the first time, cause too large or too many patches were sure too piss off the gamers. Patches had to be small enough to fit on a floppy or two.

Now, odds are pretty good that a gamer will have either high-speed internet, or know someone that does and has a burner. It is common place to see player-mods to games of 50MB or more. Demos of games can run to upwards of 400MB. Heck, you can even buy or rent complete games online and download them directly.

All of this means that the rules have changed. There is no incentive to have it done right the first time. The game company may try, and may even get it right. But if they don't, or the publisher is pressuring them to ship it now, and not two weeks or two months from now, they know that they can always clean it up, and post a patch later.

I think if the core computer-game buying community were able to send the message that they wanted it right more than they wanted it now, things might change. But given the amount of pure garbage that is produced every year that apparently still sells, the almighty $$$ still rules, and we're stuck with games that are buggy when shipped.

	23-11-2003 13:58									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And if a company is delaying the game to get it right, the gamers complain, generally.

And generally, if they rush it on account of the gamers' complaints, then they'll whine that it has too many bugs...

Cursed if you do, cursed if you don't...

	06-01-2004 06:32									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The only big bug I found is that Quit Game dosen't work from the Game System Options in the top left main screen menu.
You have to End Task, which probably means the games memory dosen't clear.. so your windows will run out of memory faster, someone should check this.

I haven't played a full game yet, only got it 5 days ago, but I've been playing it a lot.
The AI seems pretty good, it seems to know how to build planets Ok, and block off my starships with its own. I'm having trouble keeping up with the AI on medium level, but can just about beat some civ's (civilisations) in technology.

The Klakons are a nice race (insectoid, high production, good land combat, can do creative research ).. but seem lacking in technologies - I don't quite understand why different species techs are at different levels to others for the same Thing.. it is good if this is an extension of the science creativity idea, where some races learn of techs later than others, maybe from not having thought of certain aspects of a science.. I like building things anyhow, so they are nice.

The lack of terrorforming, at least early on seems annoying.. though I need to try populating some worlds less suited to my race, or capture some different species.
The minor civilisation tribes are interesting, as are all the world bonuses .

Its a shame a lot of the original games blueprints haven't made the game, like sophisticated events (though they appear to be in the game, but aren't very interactive, as random events) .

Someone will have to start a proper online Manual, the instruction manual is very minimal.

Some of Moo2's good aspects like ship crews and crew shiptoship hand fighting are gone. Space combat needs improvement, but maybe I will find it better when i get more ship enhancements.. there must be matter Transporters somewhere.
I will have to try the game further.. I am still reall enjoying it, I think its one of the BEST games around.

Its no way as good as Civ3 I think, but nice and different.

Someone should make a suggestions forum , incase Quiksilver get around to making another patch.