21-07-2003 00:38									#31
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quote: This may shock you, but dems have used this tactic hundreds of times when they were in the majority.

And this would be when? 1993? Can you name one instance?

	21-07-2003 01:49									#32
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Actually, yes. This may shock you, but dems have used this tactic hundreds of times when they were in the majority.

Actually, not quite. The "normal" procedure, long used by both parties, is simply not to have enough prints of the current version of the bills around - they are amended too often, the IT systems within both houses are fairly archaic, and the CPO can't keep up with the number of bills and amendments at the committee level. Generally, the committee chair will have one copy, committee counsel will have the other, and the rest of the members will have committee staff summaries. Once something is out on the floor, the number of amendments are far less, and the CPO generally has copies for every member requesting one (and also for lobbyists, analysts, etc., looking for current copies of the bill in question).

It is NOT standard procedure to DENY ACCESS to the text of an amendment when such is requested.

As for the members, Stark and McInnis should be formally censured by the full body for conduct beneath the dignity of the House, made to apologize in front of the full body, and then McInnis should resign, or be relieved of, his chairmanship.

	21-07-2003 01:51									#33
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quote: As for the members, Stark and McInnis should be formally censured by the full body for conduct beneath the dignity of the House, made to apologize in front of the full body, and then McInnis should resign, or be relieved of, his chairmanship.

Stark's reaction, while funny and understandable, was inappropriate.

I'm still waiting for Diplomat to back his assertion.

	21-07-2003 01:53									#34
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These tactics are more heavy handed than normal. Both sides though have used heavy handed tactics when in power. Unfortunately, it is the nature of being in power. This event goes a bit beyond. I agree both should receive censure.

	21-07-2003 01:56									#35
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Boris, the minority is getting treated much less harshly than was the case in the past. It's just that the current minority isn't used to being the minority...

	21-07-2003 02:01									#36
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quote: Boris, the minority is getting treated much less harshly than was the case in the past. It's just that the current minority isn't used to being the minority...

Haven't Dem's been the House minority since 1994?

	21-07-2003 02:01									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sava ha! Fez... trying to bait me...

Or better yet go watch the Argentine Congress in session... eek...

Now that's fun! Watching all those politicans make a fool of themselves...

	21-07-2003 02:03									#38
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In the Senate, maybe, but the House has had a fair turnover in rank and file members.

Anyway, shouldn't the point somewhere along the line be to rise above the testosterone-muddled adolescent "when we were the minority, you were bigger meanies to us, so now it's our turn" horseshit and to provide some actual leadership? I don't care what party they're from, or who's the minority or majority at the time, but a little more dignity, maturity, decorum and leadership should be expected from elected (or appoint, when that is the case) officeholders of the government of the United States.

	21-07-2003 02:08									#39
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quote: Or better yet go watch the Argentine Congress in session... eek... Now that's fun! Watching all those politicans make a fool of themselves...

I think there should be more of this conflict in government. I think it would definitely spark more Americans' interest in politics. Perhaps we wouldn't have extraordinarily low voter turnouts. I think if you combined politics with reality TV, you'd get massive participation from Americans. But then again... if all these people voted... I doubt either of us would like what gets elected.

	21-07-2003 02:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I think there should be more of this conflict in government. I think it would definitely spark more Americans' interest in politics. Perhaps we wouldn't have extraordinarily low voter turnouts. I think if you combined politics with reality TV, you'd get massive participation from Americans. But then again... if all these people voted... I doubt either of us would like what gets elected.

Turn out is mandatory in Argentina... but there were so many blank ballots nonetheless. People hate the political system and every part of it there. They just hate it. It is corrupt but really funny to watch when all of those hot air windbags give speeches. And make no mistake about it... the left and right in Argentina is just the same corrupt bunch of people, and I dislike both.

	21-07-2003 02:13									#41
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quote: the left and right in Argentina is just the same corrupt bunch of people, and I dislike both.

just like the US of A.

I agree...

	21-07-2003 02:20									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Sava just like the US of A. I agree...

Actually in the US I like some of the right-wing..

	21-07-2003 02:25									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat In the Senate, maybe, but the House has had a fair turnover in rank and file members. Anyway, shouldn't the point somewhere along the line be to rise above the testosterone-muddled adolescent "when we were the minority, you were bigger meanies to us, so now it's our turn" horseshit and to provide some actual leadership? I don't care what party they're from, or who's the minority or majority at the time, but a little more dignity, maturity, decorum and leadership should be expected from elected (or appoint, when that is the case) officeholders of the government of the United States.

I thought you were the hardboiled practical one who said that politics was a bloodsport and the Repubs better learn to ply it that way? They just listened to you.

	21-07-2003 02:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Haven't Dem's been the House minority since 1994?

You are a young thing...

	21-07-2003 02:48									#45
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quote: Originally posted by TCO I thought you were the hardboiled practical one who said that politics was a bloodsport and the Repubs better learn to ply it that way? They just listened to you.

Politics is for blood. Doesn't mean you can't have a little decorum in the process, or figure getting something accomplished that's less than what you want is better than getting nothing accomplished when that's less than what you need.

Actually, I've always said it's the Dems who need to get their **** together, and shed themselves of all the touchy-feely wimps. The Repubs seem to be fairly capable at winning national level elections.

	21-07-2003 09:16									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Actually in the US I like some of the right-wing..

	21-07-2003 09:31									#47
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Ah. Here it is.

	21-07-2003 09:34									#48
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quote: You are a young thing...

Yup... and this gives me an advantage... I haven't been exposed to the brainwashing and BS as long as you have.

nice pic DarthVeda

	21-07-2003 10:00									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat In the Senate, maybe, but the House has had a fair turnover in rank and file members. Anyway, shouldn't the point somewhere along the line be to rise above the testosterone-muddled adolescent "when we were the minority, you were bigger meanies to us, so now it's our turn" horseshit and to provide some actual leadership? I don't care what party they're from, or who's the minority or majority at the time, but a little more dignity, maturity, decorum and leadership should be expected from elected (or appoint, when that is the case) officeholders of the government of the United States.

you're right -- I mean, who do they think they are, the British Parliament?

	21-07-2003 10:17									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Yup... and this gives me an advantage... I haven't been exposed to the brainwashing and BS as long as you have. nice pic DarthVeda

And using this reasoning.. I am better than you..

Sava you just dug a whole you can't get out of.

	21-07-2003 10:19									#51
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quote: And using this reasoning.. I am better than you..

nah, yer a foreigner

quote: Sava you just dug a whole you can't get out of.

is that like a "hole"?

please son, don't make me start bashing Argentina, Spain, or wherever you grew up... I'm an American. When God was handing out assignments of where and when to live, I hit the ****ing jackpot.

	21-07-2003 10:23									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Sava nah, yer a foreigner is that like a "hole"?

You know you want it... Bend ove... never mind..

quote: please son, don't make me start bashing Argentina, Spain, or wherever you grew up... I'm an American. When God was handing out assignments of where and when to live, I hit the ****ing jackpot.

My uncle fought in the Vietnam war kiddo... my dad has served in the US Government. That very much makes me abled to speak about America.

And I am from Spain.

	21-07-2003 10:33									#53
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quote: That very much makes me abled to speak about America.

I never said you couldn't... my point was that you aren't very good at it. but enough of this flirting... discuss facts...

	21-07-2003 10:36									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I never said you couldn't... my point was that you aren't very good at it. but enough of this flirting... discuss facts...

Flirting? Gah... I just wanna kiss you.... gah... You talk too much...