25-07-2003 03:17									#31
	Remove this text

It has nothing to do with the communism government. In your rules.txt you renamed communism tech (cmn) to monarchy and gave it to various civilizations. Remove this tech from their tech-lists and voila, problem solved.

You didn't have to give government techs to your civs: You used the force-government command and forbade government switching, so

	25-07-2003 03:21									#32
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quote: It has nothing to do with the communism government. In your rules.txt you renamed communism tech (cmn) to monarchy and gave it to various civilizations. Remove this tech from their tech-lists and voila, problem solved.

@ tanelorn: Thank yu very much for that information. I´ll post an updated file tomorrow (CET)!

quote: Since you have extra events space, would you like any suggestions?

@ all: Feel free to post any kind of info; I´m glad to read any kind of comments .....

	25-07-2003 03:48									#33
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Idea for huge Russian revolution:

If unit killed (red army) owner (barbarians)attacker (russia) defender (barbarians) then create unit (red army) owner (barbarians) veteran (no) homecity (none) locations- near St. Petersburg, Kazan, Moscow

If unit killed (red army) attacker (barbarians) defender (russia) then create unit (red army) etc.

If unit killed (cossacks) owner (russia) create unit (red cavalry) etc.

Double or triple this to get russian hands full of Bolsheviks.
It also means Russia needs the Entente to confront the red tide, since it cannot fight them alone.
So there you have it, Entente's intervention in Russia after the war.
And if these communists spill into Germany, you have Rosa Luxemburg and the Spartakists

	25-07-2003 05:11									#34
	Put an end to popups!

This scenario looks like it will become terrific... after proper tweaking is done

So here come a barrage of nitpicking:

(i played just one turn with italy so i will be partial in my views)

-as seem a trend recently proper techs for the functioning of improvements isn't available at the start
namely cathedral (house of god) and italian unification.
you need either Monotheism (which in your game is Aviation Tactics) or Theology and Mysticism (Bomber Command and Pressure upon Germany, a tech that seems foggy at best:what's it?) to have them work
No one has them at the beginning, some can be researched but it's an hassle.
Besides since everyone has Communism (Monarchy) but no Theology cathedral will only pacify two citizens. Is that intended ?
Btw: Italy has a lot of House of God from the start that are completely useless unless Rome is captured but that can be sold for much needed heaploads of money right from the beginning

-furthermore:even if Italy reach the lacking tech, italian unification still won't work. why? because a wonder that is gotten from a tech that has no,no, as prerequisites won't work.
So i guess other exclusive wonders won't work either.
Possible solution: set the tech for the wonders to have future tech as prerequisites (as did Andrew Livings in Crises of the New World Order) or have the wonders that are given from that start to have nil,nil, prereq, since you haven't to worry about others getting them.
or use a buffer tech that has no,no, has prereq to set as prereq for the national / exclusive tech, as Nemo do.

-Italy can't build Alpini.They only have one in Genova. What ?!? Alpines troop made up most of the Italian Fighting force !!! And surely was the most effective part ! So make Alpini buildable, and right from the start !
And that's true for KaiserJaeger, too...
Historically it is non-sense, Italy relied so much on mountain troops they are to this day remembered as saviours of the country. They fought with valour despite inept, foolish leadership and were slaughtered in the thousands. Tens, hundred of thousands.
So why you don't just have the national units available from the start have nil,nil, prereq, since thay will be obsoleted by non- techs, ensuring no one will build wrong units?
I don't think it will umbalance the game.
Or at least give them a few from the start.

useful link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=books&n=507846

a book by an american historian depicting the valour of the astrian and italian soldiers

-regarding government:
by all ways keep communist government. However the tech creates the problem of partisans. If you don't want partisans in your scenario i think this may be solved by forcing government with cheat menu (you can choose any gov type even if the tech is NOT available). since your scenario don't allow revolutions to take place, and you don't have gov tech that can be discovered (one time chance for revolution) the set government shall stay into place and you don't have to give anyone the communism tech.

Edit:dang it, Tanelorn beat me on this

-By all means increase size of the small border cities. They get destroyed way too quickly and often (Verdun, Innsbruck) and letting them replenish population is sluggish. Events won't trigger otherwise.

And shouldn't there be more farmlands around?

-why do London Secret Treaty only work if discovered by the Entente ? Make it bilateral and have it trigger if discovered from Italy too. And shouldn't it give a bit of financial help?

Moreover, do as Curt Sibling did and have everybody be allied with everybody and let wars be triggered by events. Will work well with United States and Italy (who was in fact part of the Triple Alliance) and avoid random unwanton conflict.

-Shall Bern be part of Italy? Can't you make it barbarian?
Id doesn't make much sense to me. Besaides, the italian player can sell improvemnts since it's useless to him. And it has naval compund nad fishing industry. In Bern ?!?

-please please dont make me have to sit for hours in front of the computer looking at slaughters. Since all units have high HP and FP combats take lots of times, so PLEASE reveal only the map relative to a nation and it's cities. it's otherwise!

Shall be all.
thanks for the patience.
if you need help, i'll be glad.
Farewell.

Last edited by jeibel on 25-07-2003 at 05:54

	25-07-2003 11:11									#35
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The alpini thing is very true!!
And the battles are so long and boring....

	25-07-2003 11:16									#36
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Maybe that accounts for the civil unrest in Scapa Flow from turn 1 when playing as the Entente. This wasn't a place noted as a hotbed of subversive insurrection.

I'm going to bang on about this one again, Jim. The Camel was introduced in July 1917, I think, whereas the Nieuport 17 was first flown in action a year earlier. You really should swap these plane's slots, and make the Camel better than a Dr 1. The Triplane was maneuvrable but slow and no real match for the Camel.

	25-07-2003 12:27									#37
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Your right there
I cant notice these things, but i can confirm them to be true

	25-07-2003 14:39									#38
	Ok, some additional changes: Increase Your PM Length

1st of all I want to thank you all for pointing out ideas, critics, comments and additional information. I had another view over the scenario and Í changed the following things mentioned by you:

(1)

quote: Does any civ has communism as his government? Because I thought that allowed partizans to spring up.

Yes, the monarchy government is replaced by communism; I edited the technologies of Russia, Austria, Germany and Turky. There should be no more partisans popping up ......

(2)

quote: Most of the larger capital ships (cruisers, dreadnaughts etc) have the submarine flag on. This means they can't be seen by most units but they only attack naval units, so they can't make shore bombardments. Destroyers that are small escort ships dont have the flag, so they can bombard the shores, but they don't have the guns to do it.

I changed that. Now the Cruiser, Destroyer and the Sub Hunter have the flag and I took the flog off the Capital Ships.

(3)

quote: Idea for huge Russian revolution (...)

I also tried to implement this but please note also my intention: If the war goes well for the Russian Empire there´s no need for the Revolution ....

(4) I changed also the prerequisites for the starting wonders to "nil". It should be working better now.

(5)

quote: Italy can't build Alpini.They only have one in Genova. What ?!?

The famous Alpini Divisions were set up later in the war and not in 1914. This is a compromise because the mountain troops (also the Austrian Kaiserjäger of which existed 2 Divisions in 1914, btw) are really strong units and in my opinion it would disbalance the game. I hope you understand this. You´ll receive Alipinis and Kaiserjäger (as the ANZAC Troops too) via events.

(6)

quote: -By all means increase size of the small border cities. They get destroyed way too quickly and often (Verdun, Innsbruck) and letting them replenish population is sluggish. Events won't trigger otherwise

Innsbruck, Kronstadt and Czernowitz have now 4 population, Verdun 5, though this is not really accurate.

(7)

quote: why do London Secret Treaty only work if discovered by the Entente ? Make it bilateral and have it trigger if discovered from Italy too. And shouldn't it give a bit of financial help?

The London Secret Treaty is unilateral because it was the higher price the Allies would pay that Italy joined their side. And now there´s a reward for Italy

(8)

quote: Shall Bern be part of Italy?

Bern is now left out but a bunch of Crack Swiss Army units are blocking the passes over the alpes.

(9)

quote: PLEASE reveal only the map relative to a nation

Fixed that!

(10)

quote: I'm going to bang on about this one again, Jim. The Camel was introduced in July 1917, I think, whereas the Nieuport 17 was first flown in action a year earlier. You really should swap these plane's slots, and make the Camel better than a Dr 1. The Triplane was maneuvrable but slow and no real match for the Camel.

I also fixed that!

Please update your versions (2nd post)!

	25-07-2003 15:46									#39
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"Partizans" are still appearing, the road movement cost is too high(It should be either 1/3-1/4) and many techs appear worthless. For example "Colonial troops" leads to nothing and nothing becomes available by it.

Ship of the line has a movement of 1, which means it can only get from Kiel to Hamburg in two months.

And why does the "Total war effort" tech make the "Deutsland Armee" wonder obsolete?

	25-07-2003 16:41									#40
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Ideas for a 1916 Rising Event:

TEXT
"Eater Monday, 1916. A small and bewildered crowd of people gather outside the GPO Building in Dublin, as P.H. Pearse and other members of the 'provisional government' reads the Irish Declaration of Independence and proclaims a Republic. Across the city, members of the Irish Volunteers seize key government installations and wait for the inevitable British counterattack..."

Then use a CREATEUNIT event to create soldiers outside of Dublin, ideally enough to take the city, which will represent the great deal of damage done to Dublin during the Rising.

If I get time tonight I'll write this up in proper events format.

	25-07-2003 17:04									#41
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quote: Originally posted by jeibel ......-as seem a trend recently proper techs for the functioning of improvements isn't available at the start namely cathedral (house of god) and italian unification. you need either Monotheism (which in your game is Aviation Tactics) or Theology and Mysticism (Bomber Command and Pressure upon Germany, a tech that seems foggy at best:what's it?) to have them work No one has them at the beginning, some can be researched but it's an hassle. Besides since everyone has Communism (Monarchy) but no Theology cathedral will only pacify two citizens. Is that intended ?......

What about this, Jim? Jeibel has a good point here and it does appeat that having any troops at all in the field sends my cities into civil unrest. Surely you need to give the player a fighting chance at keeping their cities from rioting when commiting troops to battle. Let's face it, despite enormous losses of men there were no revolutions outside of Russia.

@Our-man: I like the 1915 Rising idea. If there were a free slot or 2 you could have a De Valera or Michael Collins unit to give those imperialist English pigs a good kicking

	25-07-2003 17:09									#42
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quote: "Partizans" are still appearing

@ Palaiologos: Have you downloaded the latest version (2nd post)? I tried myself too and there weren´t any partisans popping up.

quote: Ideas for a 1916 Rising Event

@ our_man: Please, post it!

quote: Pressure upon Germany: a tech that seems foggy

@ Jeibel: The US receive this tech once Germany discovers Total Submarine War and leads the US to the tech "USA: Declaration of War" against Germany.

	25-07-2003 17:43									#43
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Yes stephan i downladed the new version.
Just try and capture Verdun.


And i really think that movement should be increased in both ships and ground troops(via the roads).

	25-07-2003 18:14									#44
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I now fixed also that bug. It will be working now. I also changed the road multiplier to 1/3. You think it´s enough?

PS: Please update your files!

	25-07-2003 18:54									#45
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Perhaps even to 1/4. Troops should be able to travel via railroad from Stettin to Posen in a month.
At least that is my opinion.


No partizans appear now, but a "Not used" tech is now available for research.


Perhaps more city walls should be added to cities to avoid destruction(Verdun, Posen etc). Artillery of course will ignore city walls.


Ships: Ship of the line now has movement of 7 while destroyers have 11. Perhaps it is a bit excessive?
Its your call.

Is this tiraleurs d'afrique the French foreign legion?
There MUST be a foreign legion unit.


And one last thing: The greek infantry stats are a bit downgraded IMHO. Not known to most of you western europeans, the Greek army at the time was the WORLD'S finest. Greece was at war from 1912 to 1922 loosing only one battle in Asia minor that cost us a war and cancelling 10 years of glory.
We actually defeated the Franco-British attack on Athens in 1917, and accepted entry in the war via political means. German attacks on the fortified positions of the Greek 3rd division in Thrace failed miserably.
The german army and its Bulgarian allies then soon learned the greek martial ability in their defeat at the battle of Skra.

The same greek army was then sent to Russia to support the anti-bolshevik operations. The army departed only when compelled so by the Entente(who had been badly mauled by the bolsheviks) and did so undefeated and in good order after succesfully defending the Crimea.

It was the one, never to return again, golden era of the modern Greek army.

	25-07-2003 19:17									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oh and some other things:

1 Trade routes seem to have been neglected. Moreover the absent of the trade tech slot makes it difficult to discern which cities are objectives.

2.The city style bug is apparent. With this MGE specific(or not) bug the civ you control has always the stone-bronze style. Thus if you control the Ottomans they will have western like cities, while if you control the Germans the Ottoman cities will have their normal gfx. It can be corrected via the editor or the rules.txt.

3. And IMHO irrigations should be more easily seen. The graphic used effectively hides them.

	25-07-2003 21:57									#47
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Palaiologos, you really notice every little thing
And the greek army isnt so important (no offence to you greeks out there)

	26-07-2003 01:05									#48
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It is the details that make a scenario stand the test of time.

And this one has the potential for that.


And as for the Greek army you are right. We may have not played a big part in the war, but we indeed had the best army of the time.
Better than the germans, the British, the french or whoever. Actually every balkan nation had a good army at the time.

	26-07-2003 01:46									#49
	Ok, next changes ...... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

(1)

quote: Trade routes seem to have been neglected. Moreover the absent of the trade tech slot makes it difficult to discern which cities are objectives.

I toggled the Objective Flag to every city ..... Is this a good idea? I wanted to make the AI more aggressive in a Single Player game.

(2)

quote: The city style bug is apparent. With this MGE specific(or not) bug the civ you control has always the stone-bronze style. Thus if you control the Ottomans they will have western like cities, while if you control the Germans the Ottoman cities will have their normal gfx. It can be corrected via the editor or the rules.txt.

Hmmmmmmm, I thought I fixed that. Anyway, it seems my scenario design skills need to be improved. Could someone tell me how to fix that?

(3)

quote: And IMHO irrigations should be more easily seen. The graphic used effectively hides them.

That was my intention. Anyway, should I change that too? Should I make the Irrigation visible?

(4)

quote: Perhaps even to 1/4. Troops should be able to travel via railroad from Stettin to Posen in a month.

That´s a good point. What are the others thinking of that?

(5)

quote: No partizans appear now, but a "Not used" tech is now available for research.

That´s true, I´ll fix that!

(6)

quote: Perhaps more city walls should be added to cities to avoid destruction(Verdun, Posen etc). Artillery of course will ignore city walls.

Quoting Nancy Reagan I´m standing here. "War is not nice." Hmmmmm, I added a fortification to Verdun but I think I´ll leave the other cities without Fortifications.

(7)

quote: Ships: Ship of the line now has movement of 7 while destroyers have 11. Perhaps it is a bit excessive?

I thought of the Ships of Line as some Pre-war Dreadnought, belonging more to the 19th century. Good idea? Bad idea?

(8)

quote: Is this tiraleurs d'afrique the French foreign legion?

This unit represents the French Colonial Infantry. I´mm make them available by the Colonial Troops tech to give it some sense.

(9)

quote: And one last thing: The greek infantry stats are a bit downgraded IMHO. Not known to most of you western europeans, the Greek army at the time was the WORLD'S finest. Greece was at war from 1912 to 1922 loosing only one battle in Asia minor that cost us a war and cancelling 10 years of glory.

Should I skill the Greek Army up???? (Your opinion I know, Pericles )

BTW, I´ll be out for the day tomorrow, the next version will arrive Sunday afternoon CET I guess.

BTW, Part 2: Thank you all for having that much patience with my scenario. I want to thank all of you for your help

	26-07-2003 02:55									#50
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Truly you are a dedicated scenario designer !
Your effort in keeping up with our complaints really shine !

Howver, regarding the Alpine question, while i agree wholeheartedly with you game-wise (but want them via events !), i want to be a real pain in the ass on the historical side

Alpini were created in 1872 as the new garrisons of the mostly mountainous border.
They received their baptism of fire at Adua in 1896 where they earned their first gold medal, and fought on in Italy's war to Libia and Turkey...
They were already pretty established by the time of the war, although it's true that the most famous divisions, together known as "ragazzi del '99" ('99 war lads), the eighteen years old conscripted to counter attack after Caporetto were established in 1917.

Btw if i'm being too boring tell me. Your alpini seem to be using the shield icon of a group of bersaglieri. The alpini distinctive is a Black Feather, and that is their nickname too.
I tried making one but with orrible results.

see ya and thanks again for your patience, kindness and love for this game



http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3f21a5f6_238/bc/prova/provapic.GIF?bc5oaI_ABlNaB2uJ

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3f21a5f6_238/bc/prova/logocopia.GIF?bc5oaI_Ao6BCv._2

Edit eek is there any way to post image on yahoo?

Last edited by jeibel on 26-07-2003 at 03:05

	26-07-2003 02:59									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Jeibel, what is the name of that battle that you people lost in 1896 against the Abyssinians?

	26-07-2003 03:03									#52
	Remove this text

Amba Alagi, i think. Adua itself was a defeat too.

	26-07-2003 03:07									#53
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Adua is the one that sounds more familiar to me.

That is the big one, right?

Where the Italian columns were ambushed by the spear-yielding Abyssinian savages?

	26-07-2003 03:56									#54
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hmmm if you're referring to adua , also known as adowa in the english world, it seems the abissinians were actually armed with French rifles... and superior in numbers in a 5 : 1 ratios...
However i'm no history buff and had to search all of this up... And if you're trying to imply something about the italian army, then at you

that's because i feel no simpathy to it nor feel compelled to defend our 'honor' as a fighting force... it's usually fascist revisionists that do that...

there is even a civ scenario about it, called menelik (the ethiopian leader) i think

have you ever read Primo Levi's La Tregua (the Truce) ?
perhaps the most memorable character is The Greek...
and he remembers the italian occupation of greece as 'the most benevolent in history'
farewell

	26-07-2003 07:52									#55
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Menelik was a master at pitting the Europeans against each other. After getting French and Russian arms, he continually thwarted any real attempt by the French to get to the Nile through his lands.

Here's a shot of an Alpini. Seems to match other sources well.

	26-07-2003 09:12									#56
	FYI . . . . Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You can solve the MGE "bronze age city" problem by downloading and using Carl Fritz' amazing and totally useful utility, CivCity. I'd post a link to his site, but I'm too lazy tonight. IIRC, there should be a downloadable version on CivFan. Carl might also assist if you ask him nicely.

	26-07-2003 14:58									#57
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quote: Originally posted by jeibel hmmm if you're referring to adua , also known as adowa in the english world, it seems the abissinians were actually armed with French rifles... and superior in numbers in a 5 : 1 ratios... However i'm no history buff and had to search all of this up... And if you're trying to imply something about the italian army, then at you that's because i feel no simpathy to it nor feel compelled to defend our 'honor' as a fighting force... it's usually fascist revisionists that do that...

Actually i wasn't trying to imply anything. But truth is you people sucked at warfare.

quote: have you ever read Primo Levi's La Tregua (the Truce) ? perhaps the most memorable character is The Greek... and he remembers the italian occupation of greece as 'the most benevolent in history' farewell

I've never read that one. But truth is that italian occupation wasn't that bad. Apart from the mismanagement that caused the great famine of the 1942 winter, italians were pretty much liked in greece.
Actually contrary to common knowledge the horrors of occupation in greece were not caused so much by the Germans or italians, but by the Bulgars.

	26-07-2003 16:10									#58
	Get a bigger avatar today!

1916 Event

@IF
TURN
turn=20
@THEN
TEXT
"Easter Monday, 1916. A small and bewildered crowd of people gather outside the GPO Building in Dublin, as P.H. Pearse and other members of the 'provisional government' reads the Irish Declaration of Independence and proclaims a Republic. Across the city, members of the Irish Volunteers seize key government installations and wait for the inevitable British counterattack..."
ENDTEXT
CREATEUNIT
unit=
owner=Barbarians
veteran=yes
homecity=none
locations
0,0
endlocations
@ENDIF

That's it. All you need to specify is what type of unit should be created by the event and where you want them to be created.

	26-07-2003 16:57									#59
	Civtweak Got spare money?

Here is civtweak.
I don't remember if it needs any Dll files in order to run, but if it does please tell me.

Attachment: civtweak.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	26-07-2003 17:36									#60
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quote: Originally posted by fairline Let's face it, despite enormous losses of men there were no revolutions outside of Russia.

*cough* The French Mutiny of 1917

*cough* The German mutiny/revolution/colapse of 1918