27-07-2003 09:29									#31
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yeah, not enough live coverage of tank battles

	27-07-2003 09:32									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion yeah, not enough live coverage of tank battles

Umm... you are right...

	27-07-2003 09:42									#33
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quote: Originally posted by TCO The mission of helping the Afghans is secondary. But I'm glad we are doing it.

That should be conforting to the Iraquis also... so much for "Iraqui Freedom" if the true intention is just deposing a regime and installing a new one giving not a rat's a s s about anything else... typical though, I couldn't expect less from such an elightened and benevolent nation under an idiot like Bush...

	27-07-2003 09:47									#34
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giving not a rat's a s s about anything else

A far cry from "secondary" to "not giving a rat's ass". Clean up your logic.

	27-07-2003 09:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen That should be conforting to the Iraquis also... so much for "Iraqui Freedom" if the true intention is just deposing a regime and installing a new one giving not a rat's a s s about anything else... typical though, I couldn't expect less from such an elightened and benevolent nation under an idiot like Bush...

Tis your opinion and not anybody elses. I am expecting a leadership that respects the rights of everybody in Iraq. The only idiots were the opponents of the war.

	27-07-2003 09:54									#36
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quote: Originally posted by DanS giving not a rat's a s s about anything else A far cry from "secondary" to "not giving a rat's ass". Clean up your logic.

Yes then I'm sure governments spurt out propaganda and give names to their operations based on their 'secondary objectives'....

	27-07-2003 09:56									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Tis your opinion and not anybody elses. I am expecting a leadership that respects the rights of everybody in Iraq. The only idiots were the opponents of the war.

What you expect won't necessarily be what will happen. Or do you follow Fox News religiously too? Also, it hasn't been a year since the invasion and you're already calling the opponents of the war "idiots" when you don't even have the hindsight of history to prove it. Should history prove you wrong I'll be first one laughting...

	27-07-2003 09:58									#38
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[troll]

we sure did a good job of nation building in mexico when we took it over

[/troll]




sorry man i'm just kidding but i couldn't resist...

	27-07-2003 09:59									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen What you expect won't necessarily be what will happen. Or do you follow Fox News religiously too? Also, it hasn't been a year since the invasion and you're already calling the opponents of the war "idiots" when you don't even have the hindsight of history to prove it. Should history prove you wrong I'll be first one laughting...

What you expect won't necessarily be what will happen.

Just repeating you too. It could go both ways, I am just hoping it will go my way. And as it looks, it will. Uday and Qusay are dead. Next stop Saddam.

	27-07-2003 10:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Fez What you expect won't necessarily be what will happen. Just repeating you too. It could go both ways, I am just hoping it will go my way. And as it looks, it will. Uday and Qusay are dead. Next stop Saddam.

If nation-building is simply the killing of Uday, Qusay and (hopefully) Saddam, damn, I feel sorry for such short-sightedness.

I also hope that it will go my way: that nations will think first before acting unilateraly, imperialisticly, pre-emptively, etc. etc. Guess that just won't happen, not while Bushy is around.

	27-07-2003 10:09									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen If nation-building is simply the killing of Uday, Qusay and (hopefully) Saddam, damn, I feel sorry for such short-sightedness.

Hey, hey, hey... those are just short term goals. Nation building requires more work than just killing three men.

quote: I also hope that it will go my way: that nations will think first before acting unilateraly, imperialisticly, pre-emptively, etc. etc. Guess that just won't happen, not while Bushy is around.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! The United States did not act unilaterally. It did not act imperialistically but it did act pre-emptively. It acted in a coalition effort, consisting of 50+ nations. You are blinded by the lies the media has been feeding you.

It most certainly is going my way because your blind predictions are unfeasible.

	27-07-2003 10:14									#42
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50 nations!!!

Sure, then consider that the other 200 nations on earth were against it. Hmm... doesn't sound so overwhelming now doesn't it?

Pre-emption. Something that even Truman was against during the Cold War, now central to U.S. foreign policy because they are so aware of the problems they themselves are causing that there is a need to stop them before they occur. Great world this will be when the Indians attack Pakistan pre-emptively, when Russia attacks Chechnia pre-empitively, when North Korea, slaughters South Korea pre-emptively. My my, that's one world order we would all love to live in ain't it?

BTW, Japan "pre-emptively" attacked the US in 1941, does the Bush doctrine now justify it too?

	27-07-2003 10:15									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen 50 nations!!! Sure, then consider that the other 200 nations on earth were against it. Hmm... doesn't sound so overwhelming now doesn't it?

Your arrogance stuns me.

Go talk to me when you decide to open your eyes.

quote: Pre-emption. Something that even Truman was against during the Cold War, now central to U.S. foreign policy because they are so aware of the problems they themselves are causing that there is a need to stop them before they occur. Great world this will be when the Indians attack Pakistan pre-emptively, when Russia attacks Chechnia pre-empitively, when North Korea, slaughters South Korea pre-emptively. My my, that's one world order we would all love to live in ain't it?

Blah blah blah blah.. do you have anything constructive to say besides criticizing others? Do you have anything useful to say besides blasting others for mistakes that have happened in the past?

quote: BTW, Japan "pre-emptively" attacked the US in 1941, does the Bush doctrine now justify it too?

Japan attacked without reason. The US and Japan were in peace negoiations.

Again your arrogance shows.

	27-07-2003 10:20									#44
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Fez, do you actually have an argument?

"you are arrogant", "you are wrong", "you are an idiot"...

yeah, the cream of the crop in debating skills...

* Master Zen disappears from the OTF

	27-07-2003 10:21									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Fez, do you actually have an argument? "you are arrogant", "you are wrong", "you are an idiot"... yeah, the cream of the crop in debating skills... * Master Zen disappears from the OTF

Do you have a point?

Good disappear. Run away. That is what the underdogs do.

	27-07-2003 19:44									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen That should be conforting to the Iraquis also... so much for "Iraqui Freedom" if the true intention is just deposing a regime and installing a new one giving not a rat's a s s about anything else... typical though, I couldn't expect less from such an elightened and benevolent nation under an idiot like Bush...

In WW2, our primary mission was to defeat the enemy, not to install democracy.

	27-07-2003 19:53									#47
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Well, I think an extra billio dollars is a great idea...

Only trouble is, how much of it will reach the outlying Afghan regions after Pakistan, the warlords and Karzai have taken their cut?

Looks like it's back to the poppy fields for most farmers... I would LOVE to be wrong about this, but I haven't heard any reports of Afghan opium production dropping.

	27-07-2003 20:55									#48
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Of course! What would you do if you got the option to farm food or to farm drugs with 200times the profit from the later? + You dont have to worry about any law-enforcment and the like ...

	27-07-2003 21:05									#49
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Well I hope this will give enough boost to turn the tide in Afghanistan. Maybe they will finally destroy the opium fields that are currently giving 70% of heroin to the world once again, where it goes to Russia and from there to Europe and all over the world? I really hope so, I don't give a crap if farmers die because they can't live off from other plants. They should be shot anyway for furthering the problem. Well maybe not the farmers but the ones coming to buy them from them. I can't believe they haven't been destroyed and they are very well known where they are, it's open business like sunday markets.

Well, anyway, it's not very simple. The system that is in there has been running for hundreds of years, warlords and stuff. It's like going to Africa and say 'clans shall be over!'. But there must be and is an effort to make it happen, so I hope they succeed.

They need to put out an ultimatum to warlords, saying that either you are with us or against us. If you're with us, you will step down and give the legal leader of the country and its government its place and power, or else face the now new Afghan army.

	27-07-2003 21:09									#50
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It is very clear that many warlords are playing on both ends. It's another thing which side they like more, but they have the power to play the game, maybe most of them are just getting support and money from Karzais gov or something. The enemy would be pretty much finished if warlords were united and against them, but clearly they are NOT. So, I see nothing wrong with ultimatum, if they want to change the system, they must get rid of warlords and such. They should stop being nice about it and say step down or die.

	27-07-2003 21:16									#51
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Pekka, my understanding of Afghan opium production;-

It is not the sole crop, but it is the sole "cash" crop - and farmers need the cash to trade for stuff they can't grow, like clothes, tools etc. Not luxuries, but neccessities.

Usually, the amounts paid for the raw opium are fantastically small compared to the cost of the end product heroin - most farmers realise less than $100 on their entire crop.

In other words - buying the opium then destroying it is cheaper than napalming it with an aircraft. And as far as I can tell, nobody is buying the opium but the drug runners.

As for shooting the farmers - that's really not going to encourage refugees to go back, is it?

	27-07-2003 21:21									#52
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Well I take my words back about shooting the farmers... that wouldn't solve anything. Well buy it then, or destroy the fields, I don't care, but I think it's a disgrace letting this continue.

	27-07-2003 22:16									#53
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The farmers sure will love the Competition drug lords vs. Government buying their products
for the idea to help out the afghan farmers

	27-07-2003 22:18									#54
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quote: Originally posted by TCO In WW2, our primary mission was to defeat the enemy, not to install democracy.

And what does WW2 have to do with the Iraq war? In WW2 you fought an enemy which attacked you. How so did Iraq attack the US this time around?

	28-07-2003 01:14									#55
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We are talking Afghanistant. Try to keep up. It's in the thread title if you get confused.

	28-07-2003 01:21									#56
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quote: Originally posted by TCO It must be fun to be a liberal ****. We're going to kill those who went and killed our people. They understand this just fine in the Middle East. Not doing anything would be pathetic and just incite more attacks.

So why did we waste our time and energy with Saddam then?

I'd also like to point out that $1 billion is what we're spending on Iraq every WEEK.

	28-07-2003 01:34									#57
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quote: Originally posted by TCO It must be fun to be a liberal ****. We're going to kill those who went and killed our people. They understand this just fine in the Middle East. Not doing anything would be pathetic and just incite more attacks.

Ironic. You sound like a Hamas spokesman.

	28-07-2003 01:39									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis So why did we waste our time and energy with Saddam then? I'd also like to point out that $1 billion is what we're spending on Iraq every WEEK.

Typical liberal misdirection. We are talking about Afghanistan in this thread. You jump up and down like a little kid who thinks he's found a fault with Daddy. Get a clue, yellowjacket.

	28-07-2003 01:40									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Ironic. You sound like a Hamas spokesman.

And you talk like Chamberlin. Talk is cheap. Actions matter. If you think the US and Hamas are the same, you're a clueless UK weenie who's never really gotten out of his shell. Oh...

	28-07-2003 02:02									#60
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quote: Originally posted by TCO And you talk like Chamberlin.

Who? At least I can spell.

No .wavs of me on Poly, so you can't possibly know how I sound.

I'll give you a clue though - the next PM after the one your talking about.

quote: Originally posted by TCO Talk is cheap.

What else do you want on a forum? Dancing girls and complimetary drinks?

quote: Originally posted by TCO Actions matter.

Actions have consequences - how do you think you got top of the Muslim fundie sh1t list?

quote: Originally posted by TCO If you think the US and Hamas are the same, you're a clueless...

There is no doubt in my mind that the US and Hamas are quite different. It's YOU, as an individual, who I wrote, uses a very similar argument to Hamas.

It might be an idea to study the enemy, to see how you can avoid being confused with them or their bloody minded campaigns.