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Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:12
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At least Canadian Bacon was somewhat decent (though that was probably because of John Candy more than Michael Moore ).

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:13
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quote:
At least Canadian Bacon was somewhat decent (though that was probably because of John Candy more than Michael Moore ).


Candy was funny, but Stephen Wright made the movie. Whenever I think about the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, I think of his iconic character.

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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Michael Moore makes great movies. The Big One and Roger & Me are two of the best documentaries ever!

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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TBO is great.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:20
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I wish you people would make up your minds. Does he make documentaries or not?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
The Big One and Roger & Me are two of the best documentaries ever!


*Ahem* you used the wrong word there .

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:22
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Moore should drop the embarassing political activism and go back to making silly TV shows. I miss the "johns of justice"!

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:33 Visit monolith94's homepage!
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"*Ahem* you used the wrong word there."

Maaaaaaaaybe if I had mentioned Bowling For Columbine. The two I did mention are the certified, bonafide truth.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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Communist Party of Apolyton
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:50
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Being a leftist, I must say that I especially dislike Michael Moore for making us look like loons. I don't like the way he polarises issues and people into "good" and "evil"... "black" and "white", when in fact there are only varying shades of grey.
Not being an American, I may have been misled in my perception of the US by his embellishments.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 06:54
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quote:
The two I did mention are the certified, bonafide truth.


You happen to read the article posted on 'Roger and Me'?

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 07:15
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What a pathetic fraud, no wonder he's so popular with liberals.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Cool  Old Post 29-07-2003 07:17 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Ah, the rapier wit of the libertarian... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Do they remove your sense of humour surgically, or is it simply a lifestyle choice?

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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You evil person krazyhorse, he can no more choose that lifestyle than a gay man can choose his!!! Have a little respect for the naturally humor-impaired!

"You happen to read the article posted on 'Roger and Me'?"
Yup, and I stand by what I said.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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the mouths that roared

moore can at least be funny sometimes, when he's not being an ass. coulter, on the other hand, whose behavior is not too different...

quote:
The Mouths That Roared
'Treason' by Ann Coulter and 'The Death of Right and Wrong' by Tammy Bruce
Reviewed by Anne Applebaum

To anyone who ever tried to understand why the political left has played such a large role in American intellectual life, or why the term "anti-communist" ever became an insult, or why so many allegedly clear-thinking people feared Joe McCarthy more than Josef Stalin, Ann Coulter's new book will certainly prove thought-provoking. I should reveal here that I have spent a great deal of time -- perhaps the better part of the last 10 years -- writing about communism, Stalinism and the West's relationship to both. Yet about halfway through Treason, an extended rant on these subjects, I felt a strong urge to get up, throw the book across the room, and join up with whatever Leninist-Trotskyite-Marxist political parties still exist in America. Even the company of Maoist insurgents would be more intellectually invigorating than that of Ann Coulter. More to the point, whatever side this woman is on, I don't want to be on it.

It isn't very difficult to explain why this book is so bad. A few quotes from the opening chapter will do it:

"Liberals have a preternatural gift for striking a position on the side of treason."

"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy."

"Liberals attack their country and then go into diarrhea panic if anyone criticizes them."

"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant. Fifty years of treason hasn't slowed them down."

The rest of the book continues in that vein. Aside from becoming rather tedious after about page 10, Treason fails to explain a number of pertinent points. For example: Who's a liberal? And what is "the left"? Coulter appears to believe that these terms are synonyms, and further confuses both of them with the Democratic Party -- which has, she claims, been suffering from "pusillanimous psychosis" since World War II. But Scoop Jackson was a Democrat, Jeanne Kirkpatrick was a Democrat, even Ronald Reagan started out as a Democrat (and this was after World War II). Robert F. Kennedy actually worked for Sen. McCarthy, as Coulter herself mentions, but fails to elaborate upon. Half the members of the House Committee on Un-American Activities were Democrats. The Truman administration prosecuted Alger Hiss. Kennedy stood up to the Soviet Union in Berlin and Cuba.

Indeed, there were members of the left who were active anti-communists. Coulter actually quotes George Orwell a couple of times without mentioning that he was a socialist, presumably because she doesn't know. She doesn't mention the anti-communists in the American trade union movement, presumably because she hasn't heard of them, either. Her cartoonish, childlike interpretation of history allows for no nuances -- nor can it help her explain the present. She is notably silent on the subject of Democrats who supported the war in Iraq, for example, making only two glancing references to Sen. Joe Lieberman, and implying that every single Democrat who voted in favor of the resolutions to invade Iraq did so for crude political reasons. But if you tar everyone with the same brush, how can you know, really, what actually happened?

All of this, of course, might be funny if it were meant to be funny, but it doesn't seem to be. Coulter hasn't got an ironic or witty bone in her body. Her insults are crass and dull-witted, and her jokes fall flat. She has no sense of history and skips back and forth from the Truman administration to the Reagan administration, as if 40 years made no difference. She quotes liberally from newspaper cuttings, television interviews and other conservative diatribes, apparently having done no actual research at all. Worst of all, this is the kind of rhetoric that will allow everyone else to dismiss her as a crank, putting off real debate about these issues for another decade at least.

And the more successful she becomes, the more damage she will do to her own cause. If her ravings become confused with the work of serious historians, it's possible that the serious reading public will wind up dismissing all of them. I noted, after finishing this book, that a number of prominent conservatives have dissociated themselves from it. With any luck, others will too. Coulter will, of course, start screaming that she's become the latest victim of the left's ongoing secret campaign against McCarthy, but at least that will prevent her from spoiling serious historical investigation into anything else.

As I say, it's easy to explain why this book is bad. What is much, much harder to explain is why so many people think this book is good, or at least why so many people are buying it. After all, if you want to read a book about why the left was wrong and Sen. McCarthy was right, far better ones are out there. Making use of Soviet archives, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr have teamed up to write several excellent books about the American Communist Party over the past several years. Even if you prefer to get your history from a female conservative columnist, Mona Charen published a far more thoughtful attack on the post-war left last fall. In Useful Idiots, Charen covered some of the same ground as Coulter, but she did it logically, chronologically and without failing to notice that there were some important differences between Robert Kennedy and, say, Abbie Hoffman.

For that matter, even if you want to read a conservative rant, there are better ones -- Tammy Bruce's The Death of Right and Wrong, for example. If Coulter's shtick is that she's a right-wing blonde, Bruce's shtick is that she's a right-wing lesbian. The formula is the same: quotes picked out from newspaper articles, research that consists largely of extensive Internet surfing. But because Bruce is writing about pop culture, and not accusing the entire post-war Democratic Party of high treason, the end result is somehow less irritating.

Her points are familiar ones: that Hollywood and television have produced a culture of amorality, that the judicial system rewards criminals instead of victims, that -- thanks to the continued dominance of the left -- our children are not being taught the difference between right and wrong. But her examples are good ones: I certainly warmed to her when she attacked the open nihilism of the loathsome film "American Beauty," which inexplicably won five Academy Awards.

Still, it isn't hard to imagine using the same methods to write the same book from precisely the opposite point of view, and indeed someone has already done it: Michael Moore, in Stupid White Men. Moore's book calls for U.N. observers to monitor American elections, accuses pretty much everyone on the right of corruption and venality -- and has been a major bestseller both here and in Britain. The real question, then, is not what makes so many people buy books by Ann Coulter, but what makes so many people lap up the Coulter-Bruce-Moore formula. Perhaps it's a longing for clarity, a reflection of the deep human need to find a straight path through the modern jungle of information. Perhaps it's laziness. We all have media overload nowadays -- too many sides of the story are too easily available.

But while some people go mad trying to absorb everything, others seem to go mad trying to eliminate any information that doesn't fit their predetermined stereotypes. And the looniest of all -- they wind up as bestselling authors.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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May 1999
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 08:18
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Sorry boys, good humor is based on a semblance of truth, albeit often exaggerated. Outright lies to drive an ideology is repugnant, not funny. You may think Moore is funny, but I think he lies about people to sow discord. And if he was lying about liberals to push a political agenda they despise, maybe they'd quickly change their minds about what constitutes humor. The only thing I find funny about the Moore's and Coulter's of the country is the hypocrisy they expose among their supporters.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 08:20 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
So how has an embittered, cynical man with a paranoid streak as wide as Montana and a dysfunctional relationship to the truth been able to present himself so successfully as a compassionate, salt-of-the-earth, truth-seeking hero? One answer is that he makes people laugh. Not only does humor make it harder for charges of lying to stick--as Mr. Moore asked CNN's Lou Dobbs, "How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?"--it also makes people open to what he has to say. "Humor is welcoming," he told the college audience in May. "People want to listen to you at that point. . . . I don't come off as Mr. Know-It-All."


This part here proves he's in it for entertainment value not for truthful value. I wouldn't be suprised if in 15 or 20 years or so he says "Fooled You!!- I'm actually a conservative"

I respect his trolling. He's doing a good job. Keep it up.

This will be proven again when that film Usama and Bush 9/11 comes out. The film will be so scewed and bad, it will help the conservative cause. This just proves he's a conservative trolling as a lefty.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 08:26
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For example, look at his insulting and deceitful bit about the passengers aboard those hijacked airliners. The people on board the first planes didn't know the hijackers objective, but the people aboard the last plane did know and they did fight the hijackers and prevented them from using the plane for their purpose. But Moore insults them anyway with his lies, F*** him and shame on his supporters!

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 08:27 Visit Dis's homepage!
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That's because the Pennsylania plane probably had some black guy with balls forcing the white men to get off their lazy ass and do something.

Moore is such a racist.

I'd rather listen to Al Franken. At least he's funny. Or he used to be. Lately he dropped his humour in favour of politics

orange is offline orange
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 09:40 Visit orange's homepage!
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50 years of treason and she's talking about liberals, and not the United States and its foreign policy?

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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  Old Post 29-07-2003 09:44 Visit monolith94's homepage!
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"Liberals attack their country and then go into diarrhea panic if anyone criticizes them."

That was caused by me being a liberal attacking my country??? My doctor had it all wrong then!!!

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 16:02
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How can you associate liberalism with communism? Coulter has a strange perception as to what constitutes a liberal... or maybe the term has an altogether different definition in the States... for me, the connotations of 'liberal' are that of minimal government, free market, etc... John Locke/Adam Smith style.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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If Joseph Stalin was on the ticket for the presidency, Michael "Communist" Moore would vote for him. Moore is an ******* with his head so far up his own arse. Take a look at his movie Bowling for Colombine, after being thoroughly discredited, I don't see what kind of credibility this fat pig would have.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms...ml?id=110003233

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel040403.asp

And I would support this site here:

http://www.revoketheoscar.com/

The guy is a down right idiot.. he is like the Ann Coulter of the left. Ann Coulter is funny, and I like reading her stuff... but she is stupid.

If I were you people, I wouldn't belief any more of the crap that comes out of that pathetic man's mouth!

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 30-07-2003 18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
How can you associate liberalism with communism? Coulter has a strange perception as to what constitutes a liberal... or maybe the term has an altogether different definition in the States... for me, the connotations of 'liberal' are that of minimal government, free market, etc... John Locke/Adam Smith style.


Liberal is the US means FDR, Ted Kennedy, etc.

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 18:39
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Bowling for Columbine is a great movie, and my guess is that all the people who trash it here have not seen it.

The movie argues against the kneejerk reaction of simply blaming all mass killings just on guns.

It attacks right-wing gun nuts who claim they're not part of the problem.

Moore argues that if Americans want to reduce the number of murders than they have to look at deeper than just the availability of guns, although obviously the availability is part of the problem.

He does an excellent job exploring the different complex aspects of this problem.

See it before you criticise him.

The Templar is offline The Templar
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  Old Post 30-07-2003 19:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
If Joseph Stalin was on the ticket for the presidency, Michael "Communist" Moore would vote for him. Moore is an ******* with his head so far up his own arse.




Keep these coming! (I am now convinced that "Fez" is an act - a forum persona - by a radical to make conservatives look bad. It's just too over the top to be real.)

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Michael Moore is a jackass that should be sent to Cuba.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 30-07-2003 19:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


The difference between Moore and the likes of Coulter is that Moore doesn't pretend to be a political pundit.

Moore is primarily and entertainer, and his appearances are more akin to standup routines than political speeches.


God, Boris, you sound just like a rightie defending Limbaugh.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by The Templar




Keep these coming! (I am now convinced that "Fez" is an act - a forum persona - by a radical to make conservatives look bad. It's just too over the top to be real.)


So I provide about a half dozen links and I still have any backing?

Also Tingkai, I have seen it. It attacks America, and I wouldn't be surprised if US troops did a raid on one of Osama's hideout would stumble upon a copy of it. It is an anti-american production, attacking american values, capitalism and just about everything that is good in the world. You don't even bother clicking on the links. I PROVED THERE ARE FACTUAL ERRORS IN IT.

Paul Hanson is offline Paul Hanson
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  Old Post 31-07-2003 00:29
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As long as you take what he says with a pinch of salt, Moore is quite amusing. Saying that someone is an idiot just because you happen to disagree with their politics is about as daft as not watching the West Wing for the same reasons.

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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hanson
As long as you take what he says with a pinch of salt, Moore is quite amusing. Saying that someone is an idiot just because you happen to disagree with their politics is about as daft as not watching the West Wing for the same reasons.


I am not saying he is stupid because I disagree with his politics, I am calling him stupid because he is a liar and was wrong in his so called "facts" in the Bowling for Colombine movie.

 
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